Professionalism vs Disability 12

[1DMF]

Hi,

I noticed this forum and the premise of what discussions are meant to take place

The words we use and how we use them often reflect our professionalism.

As I have recently been prelimilary diagnosed with Dyspraxia, I was wonder how this fitted in with the concept that our words and the way we use them reflect our profesionalism.

I often find I use the wrong words, mispell them, transpose them and even sometimes offend quite accidently and unintentionally.

Many based on this would say it's because I am unprofessional, especialy using the concept of this forum...

Well now it turns out it's because I have a disability, so wouldn't assuming someones professionalism based on their literary skills actualy be discrimination.

How does one change or improve these skills if it is based on a physical way the brain is wired, if you are born with dyspraxia, there is nothing that can be done to change the way your brain interprets things or the way you express yourself.

You cannot always tell that some one may be suffering from Dyslexia or Dyspraxia, and I know we all make assumptions, concious or not, so how can one deal with this?

You cannot teach someone with torrets to stop swearing or someone with parkinson disease to stop shaking.

So how do you go about changing something which is inherently hard wired wrong.







"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Google Rank Extractor -> Perl beta with FusionCharts

 

[KenCunningham]

I do think we are over-analysing here perhaps?

The internet - allowing those who don't know what they're talking about to have their say.

 

[hjgoldstein]

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

 

[1DMF]

Ahh, and that is the current Physics debate relating to particle physics and string theory.

The issue of 'measurement' and the beleif that the act of measuring alters the state of what you observe, so therefore you can never know its true essence.

So should we 'shut up and calculate'?

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Google Rank Extractor -> Perl beta with FusionCharts

 

[CajunCenturion]

<wearing moderator hat>
@ 1MDF - Yes we are cool.

I think this discussion has brought up some very interesting points and if we stay focused on those points, then we can continue to have meaningful discourse. That's why we're here. However, we must refrain from engaging in personal attacks.

Since kjv1611 has posted the rules FAQ, I ask that everyone please pay attention to the first rule. It's the first rule for a reason.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with another's opinion, stay focused on the issue, and not on the person.

It's fine, and in fact encouraged, to talk about what is or is not professional language and behavior in a given setting. It's not okay to say that a member is not being professional or not playing by the rules.

Let's keep to the issues.


--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Noway2]

The turn that this thread has taken touches on a related subject, that applies both to TT as well as other 'professional' settings.

That is the (belief or perception of the) right to not be offended by someone's statement or comment. This thread has pointed out that there can be a fine line between what is appropriate and what is not. This can be (and is) made more complex when a group perceives their position to be sacrosanct and 'out of bounds'. Other recent threads have also danced around this subject discussing concepts like being responsible for ones statements.

Of course, when one is trying to act professionally, it is generally a wise idea to to avoid offense. This thread, has raised another aspect of this, in that some people find this more difficult than others. This is simply because of the way they are due to a disability, personal bias, experiences, etc.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Context, context, context.

I know it goes without saying that different contexts call for different rules. It's okay to tell an off-color joke in the pub, but it's not okay to tell that same joke in the boardroom. It can be very difficult to match the rules with the context. But I think regardless of context, one should appreciate the repercussions of what they say and how they say it.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[1DMF]

<wearing moderator hat>@ 1MDF - Yes we are cool.

Phew, there was me once again thing what can some one see I can't and what have I done

I like to think when I re-rooted the thread, I genuinely meant it and was trying to discuss thinks on a deep level, not argue, or as Cajun points out attacking or engaging in a personal attack.

Perhaps as Ken pointsed out, I and I guess other over analyse things, and then physics tells you the act of analysing changes it anyway.

So is professionalism just a word, it only has the meaning you apply to it and because we all apply different meanings....

Does truelly being professional have nothing to do with my projection of ones image to an assumption of what I perceive to be professional, but more about trying to understand what meaning others (be them clients, friends , family, boss etc..) apply to the word professionalism in the context it is being used and then adapt yourself to adher to there expected perception.



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Google Rank Extractor -> Perl beta with FusionCharts

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> So is professionalism just a word
No, professionalism is not just a word; it's more of an attitude. It's about treat others in both word and action.

==> Does truely being professional have nothing to do with my projection of ones image to an assumption of what I perceive to be professional,
If I understand the question, the I would say no. It's not really either or, but rather both. Your projections of others against your perceptions of professionalism have a great deal with how you judge others as being professionals, which sets a tone if you will. And in so doing, if your perceptions of what is and is not professional is out of synch with others normally expect in that context, then it will have an adverse effect on how others view you as a professional in that context.

==> more about trying to understand what meaning others (be them clients, friends , family, boss etc.) apply to the word professionalism in the context it is being used and then adapt yourself to adhere to their expected perception.
Absolutely.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Thadeus]

Your references to other professions and their use of language is noted. I would answer that as a society we agree that at certain times we can be less professional... we see comedians, read books/magazines, and engage in political discourse… situations that don't demand we behave or treat each other professionally (not to preclude behaving politely or impolitely, in anger, in passion, with wise or poor judgment).

Professionalism regards how we behave with respect to our profession. As a kindergarten teacher (5 and 6 yr old students for those with differing systems) I may be able to talk in a sing-song voice, communicate in sentences of no more than 10 words and with those words being 90% mono- and bi-syllabic. I realize it is a silly generalization, but let’s baseline it simply for a reference as typifying the vast majority of kindergarten teachers’ speech while they are acting in their professional capacity.

Dependent on your community's school board, it may or may not be appropriate to hire a kindergarten teacher with Tourette's Syndrome.

Regardless of the 'appropriateness', legality, or ethics of that scenario, a Kindergarten teacher repeatedly exclaiming vulgar terms in between 'See Jane run' and 'Run Dick, run' is not behaving in a manner appropriate to their profession. This would be unprofessional. It is not a judgment of intellect, morals or ethics. It is what it is... a person in the wrong profession.

If a comedian has Tourette's Syndrome or just a gutter mouth, it doesn't really matter... Acting in accordance with their profession, they are not only permitted to use vulgar terminology, but it is standard within their profession. There are plenty of comedians who do not use vulgar terms... because of this, it is not de rigueur to use or not to use....

In the technical, hardware and software professions however, it is not appropriate to use such language. Why not if there are people who still do use it? Why are we not the same as comedians with the option to include vulgarity as a standard in our profession? Well mostly for the reasons I mentioned in my first post:

We are employed by others who have a message to deliver in order to influence their audience. If we behave in a manner that damages that message, we risk the loss of employment.*

I am not forced or ceding freedom of word or thought by accepting these terms. If I exercise my freedom to behave in any manner that my employer determines is non-professional, I face whatever consequences there may be. I am always free to change my employment, finding a profession with different standards.

BTW, I behave in a non-professional manner in my professional capacity. I don’t do it all the time. On occasion I am embarassed and find myself apologizing afterwards. I claim no special mastery of professionalism… I just know a duck when I see one.

~thadeus

*for the self employed, the basic wording still applies:
We are employed by others (clients) who have a message to deliver in order to influence their audience. If we behave in a manner that damages that message, we risk the loss of employment (current and future contracts).

 

[kjv1611]

Great job, Thadeus. If only I were half as eloquent.

 

[KenCunningham]

In the technical, hardware and software professions however, it is not appropriate to use such language.

Damn right!

The internet - allowing those who don't know what they're talking about to have their say.

 

[1DMF]

nice post thadeus!

So you agree that professionalism is based on perception of others and you meeting their expected perception, step outside their expectation and risk consequesnces.

This has no bearing on your own perception, beleif or interpretation of professionalism for the given situation.

I can beleive someone is unprofessional while another may feel they are, but if either of us are trying to be professional to this other person, mine or their belief over whether this other person is professional is irrelivant, to appear professional to this other person we must conduct ourselves in a manner this other person perceives as professional.

In the technical, hardware and software professions however, it is not appropriate to use such language.

Damn right!

I don't fully agree and like Cajun think context, context, context.

I don't care how professional you are, you slip with a screwdriver slice your hand open on the PC case, I won't consider you unprofessional if you let ripp!

Is a professional artists unprofessional when they let out explietives because they hit their thumb with the hammer.

Doesn't Gordon Ramsey proove this point also? Personally I turn off because of his constant swearing, is it appropriate and professional in a mitchelin star restraunt? well if you look at him, apparently so!





"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Google Rank Extractor -> Perl beta with FusionCharts

 

[SF0751]

Professionalism regards how we behave with respect to our profession.

So you agree that professionalism is based on perception of others and you meeting their expected perception,

My view of professionalism is based upon both what is expected of me, and what I expect of myself. If there is a difference in the two standards, I (try to) conform to the higher standard.



Susan
You can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

 

[Thadeus]

I am sorry you cannot see that my post did not define professionalism as based on perception.

In fact I pointed out that the kindergarten teacher with Tourette's Syndrome was not acting professionally... no grey area for rationalizing or 'perceiving'. Black and white, not professional.

I also pointed out that it would be unprofessional to use vulgar language in the technical, hardware and software professions. I didn't say unless you hit your thumb or slice your finger or sales drop or any other rationalization. The language is non-professional... again black and white.

That does not indicate that a person hitting their thumb and exclaiming a colorful phrase is a bad person, deserving of firing or in need of a rehab program. It may however mean that they ought to apologize to anyone listening if they wish to maintain a professional demeanor.

~thadeus

 

[FredWagner]

One way of knowing that you're succeeding in maintaining a consistent professional demeanor - if someone else says something unprofessional in your presence, and apologizes to you without being asked, you know you're doing alright.
In my experience, if someone is upset and frustrated and acting unprofessional, my quiet, professional response helps them calm down and regain control. Perhaps we could say that 'professional' is approximately the same as 'mature' ?

Fred Wagner

 

[1DMF]

Wow thadeus,

That does not indicate that a person hitting their thumb and exclaiming a colorful phrase is a bad person, deserving of firing or in need of a rehab program. It may however mean that they ought to apologize to anyone listening if they wih to maintain a professional demeanor

thank you for enlightening me an guiding me on how to draw boundaries and distintions.

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

Google Rank Extractor -> Perl beta with FusionCharts

 

[Sympology]

Here is a thread showing classic examples of people jumping to conclusions, once again highlighting how people just make presumptions on a quick scan read:

thread461-1609676

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

 

[kwbMitel]

Sympology , responding to your link regarding jumping to conclusions. You are taking something completely out of context and trying to use it to demonstate a point. The point you made with me is how easy it is to take things out of context. I don't think that was you intent, but there you go.

Now if the point you were trying to make was how quickly you jumped to a conclusion, then it was too subtle for me.



*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[Sympology]

But you have to be careful when dealing with non English speakers. I deal with Romaninas all the time and what can seem like a obvious meaning to us, may have a completely different meaning to them. For example, &quot;teacher&quot; could mean manager, team leader or supervisor.

They guy even asked where he could find the info, not the answer

Which paper should I read in order to get familiar with the configuration?I am eager to learn and please kindly give me some instructions. Thanks in advance.

I'll translate

I have been given a task, I don't know what I'm doing, can you give me some pointers where I can find this information for myself.

Unfortunatly not everyone has a 100k a year training budget and have to find things out for themselves. And lets face it, some manuals are a) utterly useless, or b) designed for people who know what they doing.


Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

 

[guitarzan]

Sympology,

Not to belabor the point, but I have to disagree with you here. The thread you point to is NOT an example of people jumping to conclusions, but an example of how written communication in English can be difficult for those who heave learned English as a second language.

For example, "teacher" could mean manager, team leader or supervisor.

Yeah, or it could mean "teacher". The words the OP chose (innocently) make the post seem in CLEAR violation of Tek-Tip's policy about students posting questions.

http://www.tek-tips.com/market.cfm[/URL]]
Students are not allowed to post homework problems in the Tek-Tips forums for the purpose of getting answers to their homework. This is considered cheating. Offending posts will be removed from the site and offending members will lose their membership privileges.

Even though the OP asked for help finding the answer, rather than a direct answer, it is still in violation of Tek-Tips rules (as worded, anyway). Frankly, I'm surprised the thread lasted long enough for the OP to clarify, but I'm glad they at least got some advice on how to proceed.

I DO agree with you that we should all remember that many of the contributors here are not native English speakers, and have some patience.