Politically Correct 6

[Thadeus]

This post addresses the term 'politically correct'.

I only ask that we avoid an actual political discussion and stick to the way the words are used.

So to kick off the discussion, I'll ask, "What does the term 'politically correct' connote to the listener/reader?"

~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

I found something funny in that article: "The nation's answer to the question "Who is black?" long has been that a black is any person with any known African black ancestry
~~~
In most of Africa, the reverse is true: anyone with known European ancestry is white.".

It is funny. So what do you call a black Caucasoid then, say, an Indian?

wuneyej, Dimandja,

I agree. It might be not my place to say, but I never liked the term and find it somewhat comical. So did you ever heard about Asian Australian, Polish Canadian, or other such names?

I heard, though, jokes made about the term in other countries. Say, foreign students in Ukraine called African-Ukrainians, or any other -Ukrainians, for that matter. As far as I could say, they took it only as a joke, not seriously, and not as an offence. Because it does sound funny to almost everyone except Americans. But it could be only my opinion.

 

[ESquared]

If I move to Africa will that make me an American-African? Or given my actual ancestry, will I be a Swedish-German-Scots_Irish-English-American-African? Or just shorten that to European(by-way-of-America)n-African?

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It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[CajunCenturion]

Regardless of what any of us think of the term, I think we need to respect the following quotes from that referenced article:

There developed among blacks in America a growing desire for a term of their own choosing.

By the 1990s, the terms Afro-American and African-American began to reemerge, this time for many as self-referential terms of choice. Just as other ethnic groups in American society historically had adopted names descriptive of their families' geographical points of origin (such as Italian-American, Irish-American, Polish-American), many blacks in America expressed a preference for a similar term.

Good Luck
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[ESquared]

You are correct, CajunCenturion. Whether your post was directed at me or not, I will take it that way since it may have seemed like I was mocking the term African-American. Well, I wasn't... I was actually mocking ANY Something-American term.

I was trying to highlight that the whole concept of cultural identity has its problems. In that Wikipedia article, and the Neutral-Point-Of-View discussion attached to the African-American section, were the points that there are many dark-skinned people who are not from Africa.

Even the people who are from the geographic or cultural thing named, probably originally came from somewhere else. Thus the problem with Caribbean-American, since most dark-skinned Caribbeans got there through slavery, just like in America.

How long does one have to be somewhere to develop a new cultural identity? Am I a German-American? Or, given the fact that my German ancestors lived in Russia for a while, am I a Russian-American? Were they German-Russians? Am I sure that no Russian blood runs in my veins? Am I a German-Russian-American? But then, I am only quarter German, so what does that mean?

All these different terms, Lunar-American, Inuit-American, Antarctican-American, whatever... they leave me out in the cold because I'm just a mutt. I suppose I'll start calling myself Mongrel-American. I have to keep my identity intact, you know...

And THAT is the point. Why is it important to keep the identity of one's previous country?

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It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[Dimandja]

>So what do you call a black Caucasoid then, say, an Indian?

I really don't know. But, since they have straighter hair (a European feature), I would hazard "Black Whites"?

Actually, there are many Asians in Africa. But, since African languages (that I know) lack racial epithets, more modern (and clean) labels are used: Indian, Chinese, etc... Even when many of the Indians are in fact Africans -- their ancestors lived in Africa even longer than many Europeans who live there now.

By the way, a little known fact is that Ghandi started his civil rights activism in Africa before he moved to India:

"In 1894, Gandhi founded the Natal Indian Congress to agitate for Indian rights. In 1896, Gandhi began to teach a policy of passive resistance to, and non-cooperation with, the South African authorities."
[...]
"In 1914 the government of the Union of South Africa made important concessions to Gandhi's demands, including recognition of Indian marriages and abolition of the poll tax for them. His work in South Africa complete, he returned to India. "

From:

http://www.encounter.co.za/article/112.html

 

[Thadeus]

we may be the "hyphen-nation", but the rest of the world is not so different...

French-Canadians

In a recent historiographical essay on German-Canadians, one scholar asserts that the group is one of the "co-founders of Canada," a "charter group in Canadianhistory."

groups of people who describe their identity by using a hyphen, Korean-Australians, Tongan-Australians, Vietnamese-Australians, and so on.

they may at times hide their ethnic origins but identify themselves as hyphenated Iranians

Sino-Thais

Chinese-Pinoy, Spanish Pinoy

 

[tskelton]

My (white) South African friend talks of his obtaining US citizenship often. He would then be, literally, an African-American! But to distinguish himself from black African-Americans, maybe he should be an African-American of European ancestory. That could be a great conversation starter for those who don't know the history of South Africa.

Come to think of it, any of the "hyphenated distinctions" are good conversation starters for what would be interesting history lessons (see Thadeus's post above).

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think on that note we should put this Politically Correct discussion to bed.

Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[mscallisto]

Good Idea CC, it was a good discussion, yet still I refuse to refer to my most favorite childhood game as "Cowboys and Native Americans"

 

[ESquared]

Well, when CajunCenturion says it, it's less an idea than a decision, because he's the forum owner... better to not post any more!

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It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[GwydionM]

Politically Correct combines two things - an actual and necessary change in public morals, and the widespread habit of using euphamisms to cover difficult points.

Euphamisms are common to business and not just 'politically correct' matters. Rather than sacking people, you 'downsize' or even 'resize', though it is always smaller. Likewise garbage collection becomes waste management etc.

Regarding African-Americans, I think it's a great pity that the term negro got dropped. It originated as a word for 'black', but it does precisely identify an ethnic group that is not the only group in Africa nor the only group with black skins.

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A view from the UK

 

[Dimandja]

With, CC's permission (this thread is closed), I'll answer that.

>It originated as a word for 'black', but it does precisely identify an ethnic group that is not the only group in Africa nor the only group with black skins.

Sorry, but that's not it at all. Check your dictionaries. The most common definition is: "a person with dark skin who comes from Africa".

1. There is no ethnic connotation at all.
2. The term was never used by Africans themselves.
3. Black Africans called themselves "Bantu". That word (Bantu) exists in virtually all black Africans languages.

 

[jwenting]

To end on a light note, I found this politically correct season's greeting somewhere which I'd thought will giver everyone a good chuckle (except maybe the truly politically correct):

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best
wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible,
low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the Winter
Solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of
the religious persuasion of your choice, or the secular practices of
your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or
traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or
secular traditions at all...and a fiscally successful, personally
fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of
the generally accepted calendar year 2004, but not without due respect
for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to
society have helped make America great (not to imply that America is
necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in
the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color,
age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform,
or sexual preference of the wishee. (By accepting this greeting, you
are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification
or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the
original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually
implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, is void where
prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the
wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the
usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until
the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first,
and the warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of
a new wish, at the sole discretion of the wisher. Should tidings
generally accepted as good not be experienced by the wishee during the
warranted period, then this wish is null and void. This greeting has
no cash value.)