Politically Correct 6

[Thadeus]

This post addresses the term 'politically correct'.

I only ask that we avoid an actual political discussion and stick to the way the words are used.

So to kick off the discussion, I'll ask, "What does the term 'politically correct' connote to the listener/reader?"

~Thadeus

 

[jwenting]

political correctness means giving minorities (in whatever context) everything they desire while chastising yourself for having anything at all.

 

[SteveGlo]

My dislike of PC is, I hope, a rational one. It seems, intentionally or not, to mark certain topics off-limits for discussion and some of those topics seem to be very important and in need of discussion.

E.G. Some people who are more knowledgeable than I seem to believe that a significant reason for the high levels of AIDS in some African countries is due to the policies (sometimes just policies of denial) of the leaders of those countries. However some people in government refuse to acknowledge this as an issue because they are very PC and would never say anything that could be construed as being critical of those leaders.

I make no claim to the validity of the facts about the reasons for the spread of AIDS or whatever - it is simply, I hope an example, which will offend no one of my perception that PC seems to add to a climate of fear where some things are simply too tabu.

I believe that people who have a bias to the Right politically have a great difficulty with PC because they see it as a device used by the Left to stifle their views.

I may not agree with their views but I think they are entitled to have them and express them provided of course that they are not expressed in a racist, sexist, etc way.

If there are any members who thing of themselves as being to the Left politically who find PC an unacceptable form of censorship I should be glad to hear from them.

(By the way I am an anarchic syndicalist by preference).

 

[Dimandja]

ESquared, yes I noticed your sig. In fact, it prompted me to do some research for a post in another thread hereabout.

>Do you read a lot of sci-fi or fantasy? Shall we start a book discussion in Squaring The Circle?

Oh yes. Sci-fi is a big part of my reading material. By all means, let's.

 

[Stella740pl]

ESquared,

Consider someone who is blind. We could say:

Handicapped
Disabled
Person with a disability
Differently-abled
Unsighted


There is also visually challenged.

 

[SteveGlo]

The only point I was trying to make is that two people should be able to discuss a topic without either of them causing offense.

But I believe that if I were to state a contrary view, some people wouldn't try to reason with me - they would just use PC to label me as a racist or fascist or some other -ist.

Now it doesn't matter if I am shut up in such a fashion as I am not a wielder of power but I believe it does matter when people who do or who aspire to are stifled in the way described.

Regards.

Steve

 

[CajunCenturion]

... they would just use PC to label me as a racist or fascist or some other -ist.

You are exactly right, and it has nothing to do with your intent, your feelings, or your beliefs. It is all about audience perception.

The PC label is not based not on the speaker's intent. The speaker can pick and choose words with the utmost care, and speak with the best of intentions, yet still be convicted under the PC banner because that's how the audience feels.

That's what makes political correctness so frustrating. The speaker has very little, if any, control over it. A speaker can deliver a talk in their home town and receive a standing ovation. A media columnist can reprint your speech, word for word, and the readers on the other side of the country are in an uproar. How can it be the speaker's intent? That hasn't changed.

Good Luck
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[Thadeus]

Not that I disagree CC, but I'd like to have an example of a speech which is PC, but not considered so "on the other side of the country". I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around it without a more concrete example.

As a matter of fact, I was about to agree with you when I realized I couldn't reframe your assertion without an example.

~Thadeus

 

[columb]

As I see it the point of PC is to make the speaker aware of how good intentions can be seen as insulting. Usually this is caused by a change in what society in general finds acceptable. As an example there used to be next to one of the major routes into London a sign warning of 'Cripples Crossing'. Today this would be seen as highly insensitive. In 1970 when I saw it it was boderline. Presumably when it was erected it was perfectly acceptable. I'm sure that if soemone had gone to the sign's designer in the early seventies and complained about the wording this would have been seen as political correctness gone mad.

There are two problematic areas. Firstly the change in sensibilities is so rapid that, for many people, there will always seem to be something new that is unacceptable. Secondly it is almost impossible to tell those who are promoting genuine beneficial change in society from those with a political axe to grind. Add this to the fact that none of us like to be told that we are wrong and PC has become a phrase loaded with negative connotations.

Columb Healy

 

[Stella740pl]

Good intentions can be seen as insulting. I heard of a woman who found "politically correct" term "African-American" used toward her ignorant and insulting (and yes, also a PC gone mad). I would say that I can agree with her. Because, well, it was just plain incorrect. As she said herself, she was black, but not African and not American. She was a black Indian.

 

[Thadeus]

Ignorant I get, but insulting I don't. This is an example of Person A becoming upset because they were addressed by Person B incorrectly. Is it Person B who is in the wrong for making an attempt at identifying Person A or Person A who is at fault for getting upset and insulted.

Is Person A upset because they should have been addressed either:

1) generically
or
2) by a specific national appellation (which will be impossible to follow through on)

If Person B does either 1 or 2 will they just be considered more PC.

~Thadeus

 

[CajunCenturion]

I'm not sure that 'right' and 'wrong' are the best words to use. It is not clear to me that either Person A or Person B is either right or wrong.

Person A said something that didn't sit well with Person B. Without knowing what was said, the context in which it was said, the relationship between A and B, or maybe some other factors, it is impossible to know whether A was being in-sensitive, or B was being over-sensitive, or both.

Even if we did know all of those things, I'm not sure we'd agree on whether Person A was being in-sensitive or B was being over-sensitive.

I'll go out on a limb and say that it is just as polically incorrect to be in-sensitive as it is to be over-sensitive.

Good Luck
--------------
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[Thadeus]

CC, I agree with you and I'll join you on your limb (so long as we agree we're talking trees here)

That is a large part of the problem. It is simple to say that Person B was a "PC gone mad" because they used the "hyphenated American" reference, but it ignores their quandry of how to address Person A without insulting them. I prefer going generic when possible, but if I call someone a spokesperson, I may well be labelled PC myself.

 

[wuneyej]

Stella740pl

I've also witnessed moments when the use of the term "African-American" was seen as insensitive. It's been my experience that using "black" in its place is generally more acceptable, by all races, regardless of what the PC Bible says, if there is such a thing. It's almost as if using "African-American" is the PC pendulum swinging too far the other way. It comes off as insincere or even condescending.

JP

 

[Dimandja]

I am not sure of the exact origins of "African American", but I would assume this term was seen as leveraging the field of labels: Irish American, Italian American... Although, strangely enough, I don't hear English American, French American or German American.

Anyway, I always preferred to call people black American, white American or Native American (when such a racial distinction is in order).

 

[Thadeus]

Not as interesting as you may see it Dimandja. The waves of Italian and Irish immigrants was significant not just for the sheer numbers, but for the short period of time during which they arrived.

England and France did not produce such waves and mostly arrived prior to America being an amalgamized unit named "America".

I withheld germans from that point, only because the German and Dutch influences have resulted in the regional terms Pennsylvania Dutch and Pennsylvania Germans. Pennsylvania Germans is not as widely used these days but can be found in the older writings of locals.

~Thadeus

 

[sleipnir214]

The Canadians have an interesting term to delineate those people who in the U.S. would be called Native American: First Nations.

I've heard the term First Nations woman, for example.

I don't suppose I have any real right to be expressing an opinion, as the word does not apply to me, but I kind of like that term.




Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Dimandja]

>England and France did not produce such waves and mostly arrived prior to America being an amalgamized unit named "America".

Well, so did the Africans, who along with the English and the French built America, before the "waves" I should point out.

 

[ESquared]

Not that the First Nations people didn't have their own conquest, extermination, and cultural conflict. People like to get upset about how "the white man" treated Native Americans and they are right, but they seem to conveniently forget how those Native Americans treated the people who came before them.

I suppose, in order to avoid being politically incorrect, one should always (or at least, every 3-6 months) stop and ask!

"I was speaking with this wonderful bla... er... excuse me, I wonder if you can help me, I don't want to be insensitive. What is your preferred name for describing someone with such-and-such [skin color, physical attribute, thing which I am pointing to here]?"

"Aha, yes, well, I was speaking with this wonderful cappuccino man the other day, and...

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[CajunCenturion]

African-American.
Within that document, is a section pertaining specifically to the term itself.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Dimandja]

Good link, CC.

I found something funny in that article: "The nation's answer to the question "Who is black?" long has been that a black is any person with any known African black ancestry".

In most of Africa, the reverse is true: anyone with known European ancestry is white.