Politically Correct 6

[Thadeus]

This post addresses the term 'politically correct'.

I only ask that we avoid an actual political discussion and stick to the way the words are used.

So to kick off the discussion, I'll ask, "What does the term 'politically correct' connote to the listener/reader?"

~Thadeus

 

[jsteph]

I find it funny that just about everyone in this conversation claims to not be "Politically Correct".

That's because it is a relative term. Just as most people probably considers themselves 'honest', but I highly doubt anyone can make that statement in absolute truth.

Dimandja I guess that's mainly aimed at you, because you've said you're from DR Congo, though I'm making a massive assumption here.

Some may find that statement non-politically correct, just as if someone here said they were from the Englewood neighborhood in Chicago and I assumed they were black. Statistically both are very reasonable assumptions, but we know the PC police don't care about 'reason' or statistics.
--J

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> It's all about the intent.

"Hell is full of good intentions ..." (St. Bernard of Clairvaux)

You can say whatever you will, with all the right intentions, politically, morally, or any other standard, and with the utmost respect, and yet still offend. Being politically correct is not about your actions, your words, or your intentions. It is about recogonizing the sensitivities (and they can be quite sensitive) of your audience and those around you.

It is also a no-win situation. No matter what you do, say, or how you do it or say it, someone can find offense if they want to.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Dimandja]

>No matter what you do, say, or how you do it or say it, someone can find offense if they want to.

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself."

Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999
US science fiction author

 

[Thadeus]

Statistically both are very reasonable assumptions, but we know the PC police don't care about 'reason' or statistics.

Exactly my point. These "PC police" do not exist. They are the same guys that come after you for tearing the tag off your mattress.

I guess I am just tired of being referred to as "Politically Correct" or the "PC police" when I correct someone's wording choice or usage. Maybe I was being polite or tactful. Maybe I was even being "morally correct" (which connotes a crown of "holier than thou" - ack!).

Regardless, I am just tired of trying to be a nice guy and having my views draped with the ugly connotations of "politically correct".

~Thadeus

 

[CajunCenturion]

Mr. Bujoid also said
"I am who I choose to be. I always have been what I chose ... though not always what I pleased."

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sleipnir214]

Thadeus:
Political correctness may have at one time been about showing respect. But since its inception in the modern definition, it has always had, to my mind, both Orwellian NewSpeak and Buzzword Bingo flavors to it that have often left bad tastes in my mouth.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Genimuse]

Ms. Bujold, not Mr.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Pardon me, my typo.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[medic]

My basic understanding of 'politically correct' is doing what seems to be right but with little or no sincerity.

 

[Mr3Putt]

Maybe I was even being "morally correct" (which connotes a crown of "holier than thou" - ack!).

Unlike PC, being Morally Correct is not a description one would hang on themselves; at least not accurately. It is simply a state of being. I do not believe that the truly moral could ever be accused of putting on the "holier than thou" crown.

Attaching a label to something draws unnecessary attention to it. Labeling anything as PC implies a disingenuous scheme. Okay, they're PC... but why? and what are they up to?

To describe something/someone as "PC" is akin to describing an answer as "technically correct". The listener waits for the other shoe to drop. Something must be wrong, or being covered up, or being ignored... else we'd not need to be reminded of minor virtues.

[red]Note:[/red] [gray]The above comments are the opinionated ravings of Mr3Putt. As such, Mr3Putt accepts no responsibility for damages, real or contrived, resulting from acceptance of his opinions as fact.[/gray]

 

[Dimandja]

Yup, Mr3Putt. Whenever I hear "Politically Corre ct", I see a "line to toe", regardless of your own state of mind.

 

[Genimuse]

Except that there are lines to toe in society, regardless of your state of mind.

Can you walk down the street pushing people aside on the sidewalk with your shoulders, cut in line at every opportunity, blow your nose on the grass, etc.? Sure you can, but most people don't because we have a civility line the majority of us toe.

"Political correctness," when not taken to an extreme, is the very same kind of line. And just as PC can be taken too far, so too can manners in general, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate in a societal structure to just do or say whatever you state of mind indicates.

 

[Dimandja]

>[...] but that doesn't mean it's appropriate in a societal structure to just do or say whatever you state of mind indicates.

True enough. I stand corrected.

I guess what I tried to convey is that, sometimes, we say things in order to be lauded, whence not saying those things does not necessarily mean that anyone will be offended.

Example: Avoiding "spokesman" (and "spokeswoman") for the more up-to-date "spokesperson".

 

[Genimuse]

With which I certainly agree.

 

[Mr3Putt]

Can you walk down the street pushing people aside on the sidewalk with your shoulders, cut in line at every opportunity, blow your nose on the grass, etc.? Sure you can, but most people don't because we have a civility line the majority of us toe.

I don't understand this comparison.

In my opinion, those with an comparable non-PC state-of-mind could not be dissuaded from blathering their biases and bigotries, no matter how PC they were encouraged to be. A well-spoken insult may be easy to swallow, but eventually we still figure it out (fortunately for me, several school bullies were rather slow thinkers).

There is, of course, also the confinement of the PC to the oral or written record. I can't think of examples where one physically "acts PC" by not smacking into people or spitting on one's shoes, or smoking in my home... The fact that we don't do those things is certainly not a facet of PC-itude... it's more a matter of "don't punch me in the nose"-itude. Or, it may actually be a social more that takes hold of most of us.

Also, I don't know where you live, but in my city, it takes little time to find a ready supply of miscreants pushing others aside, blowing their noses, honking at pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. These people are co-workers, waiters, bartenders, baristas, lawyers, clerks, CEOs... everyone. Five minutes after gouging out someone's eyeball with an unyielding umbrella, these people are in their "silos", behaving in their altogether PC environment.

Evaluating the "general public", I'd say that most of us do have a "societal line to toe". But it's not the same as being PC... or maybe it is.

I just don't see "Political Correctness" as the reason for not "cutting in line", etc. It's not a conscious thing, IMO. PC is a conscious thing, also IMO.

[red]Note:[/red] [gray]The above comments are the opinionated ravings of Mr3Putt. As such, Mr3Putt accepts no responsibility for damages, real or contrived, resulting from acceptance of his opinions as fact.[/gray]

 

[sleipnir214]

those with an comparable non-PC state-of-mind could not be dissuaded from blathering their biases and bigotries, no matter how PC they were encouraged to be

That's the Orwellian NewSpeak thing I wrote of earlier. Political correctness has nothing to do with attitude. It solely concerns itself with using the right buzzword, as if that somehow were going to make everyone thing the "right" way.

Orwell or no, if we were to remove the word "nigger" from the vocabulary, prejudice would not go away. Some bigot would just invent a new term.


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Mr3Putt]

If John is the Spokesperson, what is his title? And what of Mary when she is appointed? Need he be neutralized? Need she be androgyn-ized?

Gender-based titles are not anathema to civility.

How does "The Majesty the Royal Person" compare with "Her Majesty the Queen"?


HHRH (His/Her Royal Highness) Not-Quite-The-Royal-Person-Yet Philip DukeChess of Edinburgh

Now I'm just grasping at straws... time for a nap.

[red]Note:[/red] [gray]The above comments are the opinionated ravings of Mr3Putt. As such, Mr3Putt accepts no responsibility for damages, real or contrived, resulting from acceptance of his opinions as fact.[/gray]

 

[Thadeus]

PC is a conscious thing

This is exactly what the connotation of PC delivers.

As I stated earlier, I believe that being PC is one thing. Being saddled with the label is another.

As to "acting" PC. It is very possible to not "act" PC.

-Assume women don't want a door held for them.
-Invite a couple over and serve food that you expect "their type" to like to eat.
-Invite a couple over for dinner and ignore their religious dietary needs (kosher, non-pork, vegetarian, etc).

~Thadeus

 

[Mr3Putt]

But Thadeus,

The acts you describe are not the acts of the non-PC, they are the acts of an [beep]-hole.

'holes don't give a load of fetid dingoes' kidneys about PC-itude anyway.

Heck, I occassionally like the door held open for me. A nod and a 'Thank-you' are in order.

[red]Note:[/red] [gray]The above comments are the opinionated ravings of Mr3Putt. As such, Mr3Putt accepts no responsibility for damages, real or contrived, resulting from acceptance of his opinions as fact.[/gray]

 

[ESquared]

Genimuse,

Are you telling me I should stop blowing my nose on the grass!?!? All these years and I only find out about it now! I wish someone had told me before.

Dimandja,

Have you seen my signature in the last two months? Do you read a lot of sci-fi or fantasy? Shall we start a book discussion in Squaring The Circle?

Mr3Putt,

"Looking to take offense" is all too true. How unfortunate.

Everyone,

What do you think causes words like black or handicapped to shift from acceptable and neutral to unacceptable? Is it more because of people who use the word in a derogatory tone, or is it more because of people who choose to take offense at the word, making it available for the use of those who wish to offend?

My problem with political correctness is that it can conceal an agenda, as other people have said. It can be used as a cover to get some work done behind the scene, such as semantic infiltration (winning by getting someone to use your terminology which has favorable connotations for you, e.g. pro-choice vs. pro-life, where the argument is partly framed by the labels). Declare a phrase politically incorrect, campaign for a new one to replace it, and people might not notice what you've done to the topic in the meantime.

Consider someone who is blind. We could say:

Handicapped
Disabled
Person with a disability
Differently-abled
Unsighted

But what's wrong with any of those? Isn't there a measurable, concrete way in which the blind person cannot function? Are we supposed to pretend that the lack of sight doesn't exist? By using these words, are we reducing people to a list of abilities and stating that they couldn't possibly have other compensatory abilities such as improved hearing? I say, nothing, yes, no, and no.

To me, the plain fact is that the person isn't exactly the same as everyone else, and while no one is, it is in a definable, meaningful way that it would sure be nice to have words to describe. I mean, wouldn't it be totally rude and discourteous, even cruel, for me to treat a blind person the same as everyone else? What if I get on his case for never driving us anywhere, to ask him to go see movies, to throw a basketball at him and expect him to catch it before it slams into his head? And gee, if I need to tell another friend about the disability so he knows how to behave politely, I'm going to say "he's blind." The fact is, there IS a difference. And taking notice of it isn't rude.

I want to avoid offensive terms as much as possible, but there sure seem to be a lot of them. Can't we just pick a term and stick with it... please?

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)