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Cursive...foiled again! 4

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jebenson

Technical User
Feb 4, 2002
2,956
US
I found this story in my local daily newspaper:

With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive

the site requires a simple registration, but if you don't want to do that I have copied the story here

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With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive
By Matthew Obernauer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, January 11, 2006
The yellowed parchment lies between armed guards in Washington's National Archives, in a palatial room with marble columns, oil paintings and polished floors — a room dubbed "the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom."

"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . ." it begins.

For centuries, Americans have marveled at the words and ideas imbued in the Constitution, as well as the sure and steady hand that recorded those words in extravagant loops and curves.

All of which raises the question: Would we make such a fuss over the document if the founders had typed it in Microsoft Word?

Today, written communication is increasingly being replaced by computer messages. And, while adding computer proficiency requirements, school districts across Texas and the nation are de-emphasizing cursive writing in elementary school training. In higher grades, teachers are seeing less work done in cursive and more in block lettering or on computer printouts.

Furthermore, some teachers say that with the pressure to help students pass high-stakes achievement tests, they don't have time or classroom resources to ensure that students master all aspects of handwriting.

Traditional penmanship, like calligraphy before it, is fast becoming a lost art.

Irma Webber, a fifth-grade teacher at Kiker Elementary School in Southwest Austin, said only two of her 29 students write in cursive, and few have traditional penmanship skills.

"I have kids who make letters in very creative ways," she said.

The state's guidelines on cursive writing are ambiguous. When the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills curriculum requirements were adopted in 1998, the state changed the requirement that students learn to write legible cursive letters in addition to learning manuscript, or printing.
Instead, according to an October 2004 clarification, the state mandates only that in third grade "students master manuscript writing and may begin to use cursive writing." In Grades 4 through 8, however, the same clarification notes, "it is assumed that students have learned cursive handwriting by the time they enter Grade 4."

Texas Education Agency spokeswoman DeEtta Culbertson said, "We'd like them to still use cursive, but the district determines how the handwriting (instruction) will be used."
No one can say how many students are or aren't learning cursive. Still, for many, saving cursive writing is more than a matter of nostalgia.

"I would prefer them to learn both" manuscript and cursive, said Travis Heights Elementary PTA President Christina Roman, whose son is learning cursive writing in the second grade. "I do think it's a valuable lesson, and it teaches more than just how to write in cursive. It teaches pen control, coordination — stuff like that."

In response to requests from parents, Manor school district administrators this semester will decide whether to create a specific curriculum to teach cursive writing, which would require time and money to create lesson plans and train teachers. Manor Deputy Superintendent Andrew Kim said, "This is one of those issues as a community that we need to look at and see if our community says, 'We value cursive writing in an age of technology.' "

The Austin school district's third-grade language arts curriculum does not require cursive writing instruction, only that "students gain more proficient control of all aspects of penmanship." Officials said the district provides textbooks and materials for students to learn cursive writing during the second semester of second grade and in third grade but does not mandate instruction in cursive.
Some Austin teachers said there is not enough class time to teach cursive writing.

Third grade is the first year in which students are required to pass the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills reading test to advance to the next grade, increasing the pressure to stick to the required material.

Sharon Holmes taught third grade at Pecan Springs Elementary School in East Austin during the 2004-05 school year and teaches second grade this year. "We had a handwriting portion of the day," she said. "We may not have gotten to it every day, because we were working on reading and math" and science.

Patricia Detrich, a third-grade teacher at Becker Elementary School in South Austin, said, "It's difficult enough to find time as it is to teach what we're required to teach.

"I do have students who desire to learn cursive writing, so I'll provide independent time, individual teaching (outside of class) to some students to make some of the strokes," Detrich said.

Webber said she and other teachers try to teach cursive writing incrementally, such as instructing children on how to write their names. She said, "Cursive right now is a choice."

Some teachers think the marginalization of cursive writing is just as it should be — class time, they argue, is better used on other things.

"I don't feel like it's a great loss," Detrich said. "I feel like the most important things to teach these days are problem-solving, logical reasoning, critical thinking — and that doesn't have anything to do with cursive writing.

"My son, who is 15 and a freshman at Austin High, spent his entire third-grade year, and had a year of specific instruction, in cursive and has never used it since."

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I find this interesting because last night I was working on some homework with my kindergardener child, and part of it was learning cursive. Now I don't know about you, but I feel that kindergarden is a bit too early to be teaching cursive handwriting. My son got rather confused, as he still has not mastered the lower-case alphabet in block letters, and now the cursive is really throwing him for a loop (pun intended).

So what do you folks think? Is cursive really necessary? I don't use it at all, and I know very few people who actually do use it regularly. I still write a lot by hand, but it's all in block letters. In today's society, is cursive writing still seen as elegant or could it be viewed as actually impeding communication? That is, in trying to decipher someone's chicken-scratch handwriting - or even clear cursive if the reader is unfamiliar with it - is the reader so distracted that the message of the writing is diluted or obscured?

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
 
==> As you point out though, the meaning of the words would not be changed, they would still read that you were invited to a wedding.
Yes, you'd still be invited to the wedding, but the style of the invitation does impart some quality on the ceremony itself. It affect your expectations. Just as body language imparts meaning beyond the spoken word, style imparts meaning beyond the written word.

==> I value your opinion, but fail to see how cursive (or script or joined-up) words can influence their meaning. In these threads people often use italics or bold to place emphasis on a word, but that doesn't really change its meaning.
Did you mean that ...
I value your opinion
I value your opinion
I value your opinion
I value your opinion.

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This is endless...
Summary of this thread is that ANY notes preffered to be written on good clean paper using calligraphic handwriting style, grammatically correct with no spelling errors in respectfull manner etc.
But in real life people don't have time for this crap...
 
CRilliterate:
If it takes more time for me to write a document that uses correct grammar and spelling, I've never noticed it.

And basic communication theory says that the transmitter of a message (in this case, the writer) has primary responsibility for ensuring that the message is received correctly. In this case, taking the time to write legibly also conforms to Sleipnir's Law of Strategic Laziness, which states, "It always requires fewer resources and less time to do it right the first time." If I have to both leave a note and decypher the note later, then I've spent time on crap I don't have time for.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!
 
Maybe he does. One of the most poignant love messages I ever received from my wife was a simple two word text. Times were difficult and two words let me know that she was there and she cared. No amount of cursive writing could have changed the sentiment.

In a similar vein I would love to own Picasso's Guernica if I didn't think that private ownship of major arts is immoral. However the piece of art which is closest to my heart is by my son, aged 4, showing me with an enormous smile. In artistic terms it has all the skills you would expect from a four year old. In emotional terms it holds a very special place.

In short, cursive may be nice but the medium is not the message.

Columb Healy
 
SantaMufasa- re: the surgeon in jeans and sandals and overall professional appearance... Whenever my wife and I fly, she observes the pilot. Age is somewhat a factor (I look younger than I am yet she has flown with me- although with great hesitancy since she HATES to fly). More importantly, if he looks wrinkled, his shirt is unpressed, if he looks disheveled in any way, she is fully prepared to walk away from the flight. She feels that if he can't at least put on a clean, pressed shirt, he can't be very organized, pay attention to detail, did he just wake up and rush to the airport... This almost happened once. Much to my relief, the pilot we saw was just riding jump seat and was not flying that day.

Back to the doctor- I have an old and good friend who is a pediatrician. He chose this, much the dismay of his parents who felt he should have gone into a more lucrative form of medicine. Yes, you read this correctly. Appearance? Due to his days of following various Grateful Dead and Phish shows, he still wears sandals (rarely shoes), t-shirt, and general casual clothing. He is talented, intelligent, and gives a damn about what he does. But he is judged more due to his clothing. Some parents are missing out due to their quick judgement. Human nature I believe.

Nick
 
I apologize but I have to understand if it means something I am missing: "I look younger than I am yet she has flown with me"...
 
CR-
I can see how that was unclear. I'm a pilot. Small planes. 8 or fewer seats. Somehow I convinced her to fly with me as the pilot. When I say HATES to fly, liquor, valium in different doses, mix the two- none if it works. At all. Ever.

You can bet I only took her on a perfect weather day. Any turbulence and I would have felt the blood stop in my arm as the stranglehold would surely increase.

As for the age factor, she is simply comfortable with a pilot who is or looks older and experienced. Although that isn't a deal breaker. If I was the pilot of a 747, and she thought I looked too young, she would then look at my shirt and decide.

Nick
 
One possible way to sum this up, whether it be the written word, spoken word, or other realities of life ...

Packaging matters!


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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
she is simply comfortable with a pilot who is or looks older and experienced
Several years ago, I have the pleasure of taking my then-four-year-old daughter flying for the first time. It was a smaller Delta turboprop running between Lafayette, LA and Atlanta, GA. At a stop in Meridian, MS, I took my daughter up to see the cockpit, where she marvelled at all the controls and indicators, and I explained things as much as I could.

The pilot (an older, grey-haired gentleman) and copilot (a much younger guy) were both in their places in the cockpit, and my daughter, in the way a four-year-old can, made a big deal out of the pilot's grey hair.

I said, "Yes, that's right. The pilot has grey hair. That means he's been flying for a long time and has a lot of experience. That means we've very safe."

Then I added, "And do you know who gave the pilot that grey hair?", and pointed at the co-pilot. The pilot was still chortling about it when we got off the plane in Atlanta.

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TANSTAAFL!!
 
I'm simply more comfortable flying with my Pop. 50K+ safe hours, 0 flight incidents. Yes, it's the packaging in this case, Pop is as simple as a child's print, but flies with the eloquent skill of a caligraphist.

Ok, so maybe that's a bad analogy, but I'm trying to tie the two things together....
 
Allright, warmer but "I look younger than I am..." sounds too odd but now I just thought should that be
"I look younger than I am yet"...???
How is this suppose to be understood, is there comma missing or something? I am trying to find it's place but can't. Fixation all of a sudden...
 
I look younger than normal for someone my age" or "I look younger than others of my age"

[Cheers]
 
So 'yet' substitutes all these words?
So you don't even HAVE to write half you want to say...and these people talking about cursive!!! HA!!!

Am I wrong?
Does "I look younger than I am yet" = "I look younger than normal for someone my age" or "I look younger than others of my age"

I am just analyzing something here...
 
CR,

"I look younger than I am..."
is a fairly common expression in English. You will also hear variants such as, "She looks very young for her age".

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.
 
There could be a comma between 'am' and 'yet', but it is not absolutely necessary. You have two independent clauses ("I look younger than I am") and ("she has flown with me") joined with the conjunction 'yet'. When two independant clauses are joined with a conjunction, a comma usually precedes the conjunction; however, the comma may be omitted when both clauses are reasonably short.

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Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
I understand every word in "She looks very young for her age" somehow and "I look younger than I am..." I understand perfectly fine, 'yet' threw me off...thanks for clarification, anotherhiggins and CC.
Oh, 'yet' could be 'but', right?
 
==> Oh, 'yet' could be 'but', right?
Exactly!

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Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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