Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!

Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!

  • Congratulations IamaSherpa on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Cursive...foiled again! 4

Status
Not open for further replies.

jebenson

Technical User
Feb 4, 2002
2,956
US
I found this story in my local daily newspaper:

With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive

the site requires a simple registration, but if you don't want to do that I have copied the story here

************************************************************
With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive
By Matthew Obernauer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, January 11, 2006
The yellowed parchment lies between armed guards in Washington's National Archives, in a palatial room with marble columns, oil paintings and polished floors — a room dubbed "the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom."

"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . ." it begins.

For centuries, Americans have marveled at the words and ideas imbued in the Constitution, as well as the sure and steady hand that recorded those words in extravagant loops and curves.

All of which raises the question: Would we make such a fuss over the document if the founders had typed it in Microsoft Word?

Today, written communication is increasingly being replaced by computer messages. And, while adding computer proficiency requirements, school districts across Texas and the nation are de-emphasizing cursive writing in elementary school training. In higher grades, teachers are seeing less work done in cursive and more in block lettering or on computer printouts.

Furthermore, some teachers say that with the pressure to help students pass high-stakes achievement tests, they don't have time or classroom resources to ensure that students master all aspects of handwriting.

Traditional penmanship, like calligraphy before it, is fast becoming a lost art.

Irma Webber, a fifth-grade teacher at Kiker Elementary School in Southwest Austin, said only two of her 29 students write in cursive, and few have traditional penmanship skills.

"I have kids who make letters in very creative ways," she said.

The state's guidelines on cursive writing are ambiguous. When the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills curriculum requirements were adopted in 1998, the state changed the requirement that students learn to write legible cursive letters in addition to learning manuscript, or printing.
Instead, according to an October 2004 clarification, the state mandates only that in third grade "students master manuscript writing and may begin to use cursive writing." In Grades 4 through 8, however, the same clarification notes, "it is assumed that students have learned cursive handwriting by the time they enter Grade 4."

Texas Education Agency spokeswoman DeEtta Culbertson said, "We'd like them to still use cursive, but the district determines how the handwriting (instruction) will be used."
No one can say how many students are or aren't learning cursive. Still, for many, saving cursive writing is more than a matter of nostalgia.

"I would prefer them to learn both" manuscript and cursive, said Travis Heights Elementary PTA President Christina Roman, whose son is learning cursive writing in the second grade. "I do think it's a valuable lesson, and it teaches more than just how to write in cursive. It teaches pen control, coordination — stuff like that."

In response to requests from parents, Manor school district administrators this semester will decide whether to create a specific curriculum to teach cursive writing, which would require time and money to create lesson plans and train teachers. Manor Deputy Superintendent Andrew Kim said, "This is one of those issues as a community that we need to look at and see if our community says, 'We value cursive writing in an age of technology.' "

The Austin school district's third-grade language arts curriculum does not require cursive writing instruction, only that "students gain more proficient control of all aspects of penmanship." Officials said the district provides textbooks and materials for students to learn cursive writing during the second semester of second grade and in third grade but does not mandate instruction in cursive.
Some Austin teachers said there is not enough class time to teach cursive writing.

Third grade is the first year in which students are required to pass the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills reading test to advance to the next grade, increasing the pressure to stick to the required material.

Sharon Holmes taught third grade at Pecan Springs Elementary School in East Austin during the 2004-05 school year and teaches second grade this year. "We had a handwriting portion of the day," she said. "We may not have gotten to it every day, because we were working on reading and math" and science.

Patricia Detrich, a third-grade teacher at Becker Elementary School in South Austin, said, "It's difficult enough to find time as it is to teach what we're required to teach.

"I do have students who desire to learn cursive writing, so I'll provide independent time, individual teaching (outside of class) to some students to make some of the strokes," Detrich said.

Webber said she and other teachers try to teach cursive writing incrementally, such as instructing children on how to write their names. She said, "Cursive right now is a choice."

Some teachers think the marginalization of cursive writing is just as it should be — class time, they argue, is better used on other things.

"I don't feel like it's a great loss," Detrich said. "I feel like the most important things to teach these days are problem-solving, logical reasoning, critical thinking — and that doesn't have anything to do with cursive writing.

"My son, who is 15 and a freshman at Austin High, spent his entire third-grade year, and had a year of specific instruction, in cursive and has never used it since."

************************************************************

I find this interesting because last night I was working on some homework with my kindergardener child, and part of it was learning cursive. Now I don't know about you, but I feel that kindergarden is a bit too early to be teaching cursive handwriting. My son got rather confused, as he still has not mastered the lower-case alphabet in block letters, and now the cursive is really throwing him for a loop (pun intended).

So what do you folks think? Is cursive really necessary? I don't use it at all, and I know very few people who actually do use it regularly. I still write a lot by hand, but it's all in block letters. In today's society, is cursive writing still seen as elegant or could it be viewed as actually impeding communication? That is, in trying to decipher someone's chicken-scratch handwriting - or even clear cursive if the reader is unfamiliar with it - is the reader so distracted that the message of the writing is diluted or obscured?

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
 

sha76,

I was always taught the pen never leaves the paper before you've finished the word.

But you are in UK, right?
 
In the UK, not everybody gets taught to leave the pen on the paper from beginning to end of the word.

In the USA, just about everybody gets taught (at age 7 or 8) to do this. Pedagogically/theoretically (apart from the still-few people teaching Italic), the USA has a "Grand Canyon" in its handwriting instruction:

totally joinless writing on one side,

totally joining writing (pen never lifted within words) on the other side, and nothing allowed (or imagined) in between. (Kids who try to join even one letter to one other letter in first grade get punished and shamed by their teachers - and sometimes their parents! - every bit as much as kids in second or third grade who lift the pen between one letter and one other letter.)
 
Stella - yes, I'm in the UK.

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert
 
I can not believe people give this issue so much attention like in Kate's post.
They just must have lots of time on their hands.
 
Explain more CRilliterate. Which people are you referring to? People like Kate? Because this is what she does for a living... so it wouldn't be time on her hands, but a vocation. Or do you mean something else?

~Thadeus
 
I meant a teacher who was so worried about not lifting the pen:
"Never in my life since age 7 have I lifted my pen within a word or allowed any student of mine to do so. No adult, anywhere, would write in such a manner."

to the point that realizing this:

"and she had to concede that yes, indeed, like most people she lifts the pen within words whether she wants to admit to it or not"

probably crushed her world!!! And all it was is nothing that can kill or cure anyone...

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I am amazed so all foggy to me.
 
>>Sorry I wasn't clearer

No problem.

I remember, as a 6 year old in 1st grade, our teacher would strike you on the knuckles with a ruler if you did not write "correctly". Sister Mary Constanta. She would do it so hard that she eventually broke her ruler that year on a classmate's hands. Another classmate, Amy Chase, brought in a metal ruler as a gift for the Sister.

Over 30 years ago and Amy's name still makes my knuckles ache.

Good penmanship was something demanded of us... I can see why some may have been affected by such behavior into later years.

~Thadeus
 
Amy Chase...is there horror movie about her? You think her parents gave it to her to give to a teacher or she was so 'nice' herself?
 

Thadeus said:
Which people are you referring to? People like Kate? Because this is what she does for a living... so it wouldn't be time on her hands, but a vocation. Or do you mean something else?
CRIlliterate said:
I meant a teacher who was so worried about not lifting the pen
...
probably crushed her world!!! And all it was is nothing that can kill or cure anyone...
But isn't it clear that the teacher in question also does this for a living, just in a different way; and she used to believe in what she does. I can imagine she was upset. May her world crushed indeed.

 
See, nothing written to me in stone so i am sort of lost when i hear about 'rules' or doing something certain way ONLY! Scares *** out of me, really. To me teacher used 'as was told' writing not as bread winning tool rather like enforcement on others regardless THEIR believes and wishes.
I mean she would get paid even if she wrote with a coal, wouldn't she? But she was just...'old way' and stubborn.
 

See, nothing written to me in stone so i am sort of lost when i hear about 'rules' or doing something certain way ONLY!
I understand, but not everyone believes that. Some do truly believe that there is only one way (or, rather, one good/correct way) to do something.

But she was just...'old way' and stubborn.
Well, people are rarely stubborn about something they don't believe in, and the 'old way' was what she believed in.

As for "enforcement on others regardless THEIR believes and wishes", well, sometimes you need this, too, to teach kids what they think they don't need and don't want - but you know they do. Of course you might try to motivate them, if you can and if that works, but it not always and not for everyone works.

Say, you know now that all-joined writing is not that important (semi-joined will do), but, say, math is. As for the kids, the two may seem just exactly the same hard and "of no use". So if you fail to motivate and just try to enforce, you would end up being "'old way' and stubborn".

(For some people laws are not written in stone, too, and they don't believe in enforcement the laws against their wishes - but the society thinks differently, right?)

I mean she would get paid even if she wrote with a coal, wouldn't she? But not for teaching young students how to write with a coal, I would guess.

What I am trying to say is not in defense of one or another system of handwriting, but that I can understand why the teacher with the elegant handwriting was so upset. She wouldn't probably write at all if the subject were not of importance to her.

 
I see, Stella, you are good analyst.
I am thinking about math and enforcement. If you can't calculate you'll be screwed in life by many, right? But if you can't find square root you probably would be ok as a next guy...So that part i wouldn't enforce, but then you can't get into college, can't get a good job, so you screwed this way! Oh, boy! Got to think some more.
 
CR. You probably think too much! That's not meant in a derogatory way, just that it's possible to allow 'thinking' to overrule some of the more basic instincts that people get by and thrive on. Sure, think, but don't let thinking about too many options (procrastination?) cloud the necessity to achieve an end result.
 
<forum moderator>

We're done here!

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor

Back
Top