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Cursive...foiled again! 4

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jebenson

Technical User
Feb 4, 2002
2,956
US
I found this story in my local daily newspaper:

With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive

the site requires a simple registration, but if you don't want to do that I have copied the story here

************************************************************
With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive
By Matthew Obernauer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, January 11, 2006
The yellowed parchment lies between armed guards in Washington's National Archives, in a palatial room with marble columns, oil paintings and polished floors — a room dubbed "the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom."

"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . ." it begins.

For centuries, Americans have marveled at the words and ideas imbued in the Constitution, as well as the sure and steady hand that recorded those words in extravagant loops and curves.

All of which raises the question: Would we make such a fuss over the document if the founders had typed it in Microsoft Word?

Today, written communication is increasingly being replaced by computer messages. And, while adding computer proficiency requirements, school districts across Texas and the nation are de-emphasizing cursive writing in elementary school training. In higher grades, teachers are seeing less work done in cursive and more in block lettering or on computer printouts.

Furthermore, some teachers say that with the pressure to help students pass high-stakes achievement tests, they don't have time or classroom resources to ensure that students master all aspects of handwriting.

Traditional penmanship, like calligraphy before it, is fast becoming a lost art.

Irma Webber, a fifth-grade teacher at Kiker Elementary School in Southwest Austin, said only two of her 29 students write in cursive, and few have traditional penmanship skills.

"I have kids who make letters in very creative ways," she said.

The state's guidelines on cursive writing are ambiguous. When the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills curriculum requirements were adopted in 1998, the state changed the requirement that students learn to write legible cursive letters in addition to learning manuscript, or printing.
Instead, according to an October 2004 clarification, the state mandates only that in third grade "students master manuscript writing and may begin to use cursive writing." In Grades 4 through 8, however, the same clarification notes, "it is assumed that students have learned cursive handwriting by the time they enter Grade 4."

Texas Education Agency spokeswoman DeEtta Culbertson said, "We'd like them to still use cursive, but the district determines how the handwriting (instruction) will be used."
No one can say how many students are or aren't learning cursive. Still, for many, saving cursive writing is more than a matter of nostalgia.

"I would prefer them to learn both" manuscript and cursive, said Travis Heights Elementary PTA President Christina Roman, whose son is learning cursive writing in the second grade. "I do think it's a valuable lesson, and it teaches more than just how to write in cursive. It teaches pen control, coordination — stuff like that."

In response to requests from parents, Manor school district administrators this semester will decide whether to create a specific curriculum to teach cursive writing, which would require time and money to create lesson plans and train teachers. Manor Deputy Superintendent Andrew Kim said, "This is one of those issues as a community that we need to look at and see if our community says, 'We value cursive writing in an age of technology.' "

The Austin school district's third-grade language arts curriculum does not require cursive writing instruction, only that "students gain more proficient control of all aspects of penmanship." Officials said the district provides textbooks and materials for students to learn cursive writing during the second semester of second grade and in third grade but does not mandate instruction in cursive.
Some Austin teachers said there is not enough class time to teach cursive writing.

Third grade is the first year in which students are required to pass the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills reading test to advance to the next grade, increasing the pressure to stick to the required material.

Sharon Holmes taught third grade at Pecan Springs Elementary School in East Austin during the 2004-05 school year and teaches second grade this year. "We had a handwriting portion of the day," she said. "We may not have gotten to it every day, because we were working on reading and math" and science.

Patricia Detrich, a third-grade teacher at Becker Elementary School in South Austin, said, "It's difficult enough to find time as it is to teach what we're required to teach.

"I do have students who desire to learn cursive writing, so I'll provide independent time, individual teaching (outside of class) to some students to make some of the strokes," Detrich said.

Webber said she and other teachers try to teach cursive writing incrementally, such as instructing children on how to write their names. She said, "Cursive right now is a choice."

Some teachers think the marginalization of cursive writing is just as it should be — class time, they argue, is better used on other things.

"I don't feel like it's a great loss," Detrich said. "I feel like the most important things to teach these days are problem-solving, logical reasoning, critical thinking — and that doesn't have anything to do with cursive writing.

"My son, who is 15 and a freshman at Austin High, spent his entire third-grade year, and had a year of specific instruction, in cursive and has never used it since."

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I find this interesting because last night I was working on some homework with my kindergardener child, and part of it was learning cursive. Now I don't know about you, but I feel that kindergarden is a bit too early to be teaching cursive handwriting. My son got rather confused, as he still has not mastered the lower-case alphabet in block letters, and now the cursive is really throwing him for a loop (pun intended).

So what do you folks think? Is cursive really necessary? I don't use it at all, and I know very few people who actually do use it regularly. I still write a lot by hand, but it's all in block letters. In today's society, is cursive writing still seen as elegant or could it be viewed as actually impeding communication? That is, in trying to decipher someone's chicken-scratch handwriting - or even clear cursive if the reader is unfamiliar with it - is the reader so distracted that the message of the writing is diluted or obscured?

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
 
[rofl]

Actually, I think you missed the most important one ... a simple, genuine, straight from the heart, hand written statement. Not typed, not coloured, not pretty & frilly. One which has nothing to visually detract from the real meaning of the message.

... but I really like the whipped cream train of thought. [tongue]

[Cheers]
 
Without 'cursive' (and this is the first time I've heard of handwriting referred to in this way) what would we scrawl on the hundreds of post-it notes adorning our monitors?
 
The only thing I have ever used cursive writing for is to write my signature, and to read others' cursive handwriting. However, I still consider that sufficient reason to have learned it.

I don't have a journal per-se, but I do keep lots of written notes, comments, reminders, ideas, etc. They're all printed. I can printed take notes in a class as quickly as others can take them in cursive.

I was taught cursive writing in third grade. I think that is plenty early enough to start teaching it. Children should be given sufficient time to learn how to print and read print before they're taught an alternative.

My cursive writing is slow and ugly. I never use it. When I want to send a personal note, I print it. I hate getting letters written in cursive that are difficult to decipher. I'd rather they be easy to read. I give that courtesy to others.

At the very least children should be taught to sign their name in cursive. Your signature is probably the signal most important thing you write. It should be recognizably yours and yours alone. That's a lot easier to accomlish in cursive than in block printing.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard. [dragon]
 
Sorry folks, but I had to...

<aside> Tracy - as I was prevented from responding in another thread, due to it being closed; caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are not food groups - they're dietary essentials --- but chocolate is... well it's chocolate! (She said; fag in hand + gin in glass, with coffee on the side) </aside>



Rosie
"There are four basic food groups: milk chocolate, dark chocolate, white chocolate, and chocolate truffles." Anonymous
 
<aside RosieB> I don't deny what you say about Chocolate - it's the form I prefer to get my daily allowance of sugar in. It's also very satifying to the senses.</aside>

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard. [dragon]
 
At the heart of this debate is a very serious question about education in general.

Viewpoint 1. The purpose of education is to give our children the skills they require to compete in an ever competitive world. As such the emphasis should be on 'the three R's' and technology. Art and dead languages such as Latin are an extravagance that we cannot afford in the modern world. The illiteracy and innumeracy amongst our undergraduates is appalling.

Viewpoint 2. Education is about far more than simply shoving facts down the throats of the young. In a civilised society there is a need for a rounded education that needs an appreciation of aesthetics as much as it needs hard facts. Without this we are breeding soul-less technocrats. How can we expect balanced decisions from the decision makers if they have only been educated in technology.

Personally, if viewpoint 1 is 0 and viewpoint 2 is 10 then I'm about a 7.

Columb Healy
 
Printing in whipped cream is very difficult, even when using a can with a handy writing tip. Cursive, on the other hand, is near impossible.

I couldn't fit the whole message on one piece of paper....
 
I only suspect what is this thread all about but reading
CorBlimeyLimey : I would rather receive a letter from my wife stating, "Darling, you are the love of my life" mashed into the paper with crayon than, "Hey asshole, when are you going to take out the trash?" in beautiful cursive or calligraphic script...

makes me shiver like 'what ta heck?' Is writing in cursive possible only if you write trash? How would you like to receive letter from your wife in beautiful cursive or calligraphic script that says "Darling, you are the love of my life" ... WHY is it sound impossibe after reading you?




 
If you read the preceding posts, you may better understand that I was trying to prove a point ... that it is the honest content of a message which is most important, not the fancy style of its delivery.

[Cheers]
 
==>that it is the honest content of a message which is most important, not the fancy style of its delivery.
In verbal communications, a good deal of the message can be delivered by non-verbal means, such as facial expressions, hand and eye movement, tone, and so forth. Similarly, in written communications, part of the message may be contained outside of the written word, and in my opinion, cursive can and does influence the meaning of the words.

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I disagree that cursive can and does influence the meaning of the words. People with terrible handwriting can write elegantly and genious even. Don't they?

Calligraphy is out due to speed of life we are living but if it was thought mandatory - I would like to learn. But then it would be like my friend's son learning Ukrainian language attending neighborhood Ukrainian school...pretty? Indeed? Useless? Beyound imaginable...Time wasted? Never know!

 
Cajun ... I agree 100% that body-language & intonation can deeply influence a message during verbal communications (face to face anyway). However, in keeping with the context of the OP we are "talking" about the written word. I value your opinion, but fail to see how cursive (or script or joined-up) words can influence their meaning. In these threads people often use italics or bold to place emphasis on a word, but that doesn't really change its meaning.

Can you give examples?

[Cheers]
 
While you cannot convey all of the nuance that is possible with spoken words, I agree woth cc that cursive can influence the readers perception of the message. It has an emotional element to it, and in that it isn't used much anymore gives a sense that more care was put into the work and it is due more respect.

DonBott
 
Cor,

I'd like to suggest a couple of scenarios where "appearance" can "influence...meaning". Granted, the scenarios that follow (initially) are vastly different from the more narrow "written-word" context within which you would like to limit our discussion, my point is to show that "appearance" can say much and convey very powerful "meaning", "interpretation" and even "prejudice".

You are in your hospital bed; prior to your cardiac or brain surgery, the "specialist" that will perform the procedure comes into your room for a pre-op briefing. He shows up in sandals, torn Levi's, a "wife-beater" string-strapped t-shirt with holes (front and back), long hair in a pony tail, a scruffy beard, and his glasses have a broken lens. Everything I described is clean and germ free. He comes highly recommended. None of his "appearance" negatively affects his Stanford-Medical-School training. I will bet that you will, nonetheless, have second thoughts about going under his knife.

Change the scenario from a "surgeon" to a "financial planner", or a "police officer". I believe that although what he (or she, except for, or even including, the beard) might say remains the same regardless of their "appearance", that the appearance has a profound "mental effect" upon you and the confidence you have in the message.

If you receive an engraved/embossed wedding invitation in a double-enveloped packet versus the same words in an e-mail, you cannot deny that you will think twice about the latter's "appearance", regardless of the words/message whose "meanings" don't seem to change, but your "evaluation" of the message/meaning changes.

These scenarios represent the equivalent of "body language" and "intonation" that to which you referred in your recent reply. Do you not agree that "appearance" has an impact on at least interpretation if not meaning?

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[ Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.
 

CorBlimeyLimey,
As long as it's Cadbury chocolate it's OK. Cadbury is written in cursive. Many/most of the others aren't.

Lindt, too. I, personally, prefer it to Cadbury, and their cursive looks prettier to me.


 
Santa,
I definitely agree that a fancy script font on a formal invitation would have a distinctly positive impact on its appearance. It would give the expectation that the ceremony was going to be ...[ponder]... traditionally dignified? As you point out though, the meaning of the words would not be changed, they would still read that you were invited to a wedding.

BTW, how many times have you received "an engraved/embossed wedding invitation in a double-enveloped packet" which was handwritten by the bride & groom rather than whisked through a printer?

I am currently transcribing an 1861 population census of my home town for a UK genealogy site. The cursive writing is making me curse the enumerators for using it. Although it is aesthetically pleasing overall, it adds nothing to the data. In fact it actually detracts from the legibility. Simple non-cursive writing (upper or lower case) would have made the transcribing so much easier & more accurate.

There is a time & place for cursive writing.

[Cheers]
 
Here's the real question:

If your wife gave you a "Hey, asshole..." letter, would you prefer it to be written in mashed crayon or in flowing calligraphy?
 
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