Why do so many people not acknowledge help 27

[johnnymac43]

When a question is asked in a technical forum, the first reply is usually a useful piece of advice or a request for more details. In some tek-tips forums, the number of occasions when there is no response from the originator is substantial. In my view, a word of thanks or a simple answer to a question should be the 'normal' outcome.

I recently raised this topic in a technical forum. When it disappeared after a short time I was unsure whether it was because it was in the wrong place, or because the thread attracted some unexpected abuse:- (What is your problem?) (What are you complaining about?) (Why haven't you given more stars to us for our good advice to others?)

After some deliberation I have decided to try this forum in the hope of getting some serious discussion going.

Cheers

John

 

[Stevehewitt]

Yes, I agree its just good manners - but newbie's were brought up in this thread and as an ex TT newbie (e.g. I knew nothing about networks when I started with TT) I felt it my place to defend some questions which may come across as a bit basic and easy.

For example, I am learning VBA for an Access App I have been working on. I don't want people to write the code for me, but just the starting syntax so I can look it up in VBA and learn. That gets them a star, and (as always) a thank you.


As much as I hate not being thanked, I really don't think that there is much we can do about it other than not to help people who don't say please in their thread. Maybe that is the right way, but I think that is going agaist what TT is about. It won't put me off posting to a forum, but maybe that user.

 

[TomKane]

I don't think I'd be able to not post the answer to a problem (if I know it) to anyone - regardless of manners - not so much for them but in case somebody else who takes the time to do a keyword search might come across it at some future date.

 

[Stevehewitt]

Good post. How very ethical!

Have a star.

Steve Hewitt

 

[pmonett]

jrbarnett :
I just had to say I loved your URL's !

(now what is this going to do to my reputation ?)

pmonett

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

sleipnir214: EdwardMartinIII: Can I infer that you cannot also be cheered by reports in this regard?

Pretty much, yep. Massive membership or massive hits doesn't mean much to me, except if there was a bandwidth issue. Then it would matter.

I've gotten in a funny habit lately. I answer a few questions if I know the answer, but then I usually pick one good, interesting one and hound-dog it until I figure it out. That's fun!

The courtesy or lack thereof of differing members isn't usually relevant, unless it falls outside what I think of as the norm for an online community, which is a very broad standard!

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

I guess the thing that this boils down to for me is an application of a Hesse paraphrase: "What you loathe in others, you loathe in yourself."

I apply it (or at least try to) whenever I find myself being critical of someone else. Am I about to complain that someone else is cranky or discourteous or flakier than a good pie crust? Perhaps I should focus on my own shortcomings in those arenas.

This way, I spent more time living up to my own impossible standards, instead of insisting on everyone else doing so.

Cheers,


Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[sleipnir214]

EdwardMartinIII:
<sarcasm>
I don't have to second-guess myself when I'm critical of someone else's crankiness. I know cranky is generally my normal state of being.
</sarcasm>

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Maybe you just need a cookie and a nap? That's usually what I need when I'm cranky.

Cheers,


Edward

&quot;Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!&quot; -- inventor of the cat door

 

[Stevehewitt]

Hey,

I recently posted a thread in the Access forum saying &quot;why are there so few people staring this forum.&quot;
It got removed by TT management, and I got emailed saying that its best to keep posts techincal.

Fair enough, but TT management also asked for any ideas on how they can encourage users to star experts a lot more.

Any ideas? I gave TT the URL of this thread so I think they maybe listening...!

 

[xlbo]

Well, there's at least 6 or 7 members of the TT round table that have contributed to this thread already....... ;-)

Rgds, Geoff
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Want the best answers to your questions ? faq222-2244

 

[Spirit]

Is making someone give stars against their will ethical? Or would this be the start of an oppressive regime?

Lets take this another way some people hod doors open for other people, while driving in heavy traffic some people will let other cars in front of them others won't and even when people do these things sometimes the receiver will say thank you while others will not.


Some people are nice :-> , some people are nasty >:-< , some people are happy and some are sad thats just the way it is!

If anyone does manage to answer this thread well I think a Sainthood will be on the way quickly!

Iain

 

[EricDraven]

If anyone does manage to answer this thread well I think a Sainthood will be on the way quickly!

Based on the original question of

Why do so many people not acknowledge help

Answer = Because they are ignorant!

I shall now sit back and await my sainthood.


When your feeling down and your resistance is low, light another cigarette and let yourself go

 

[CajunCenturion]

Perhaps ignorant is quite appropriate, but I think that selfish, greedy, and just plain inconsiderate are also applicable.

Spirit - Is making someone give stars against their will ethical?.

Let's turn it around again. Is it ethical for someone to greedily take and take and take from others, and not in turn, give back to the forum, not necessarily in stars to those from whom they've taken, but perhaps by giving to someone else in need, by answering someone else's question. You are quite correct that the world consists of people of all kinds, so the real question is, what type of people to we want as members of the Tek-Tips community?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BruceReed]

Spirit

My 2 cents:

I think that people are that way because of the way that they were raised. Nice people usually (not always) raise nice children, and manners are a part of being nice.

Bruce

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

I do not necessarily consider someone not saying thank-you as rude, but I do consider someone helping with the unspoken expectation of thanks and then kvetching when they don't receive it as having bad boundaries (it is possible there are degrees in Mind Reading -- if so, please tell me where I must sign).

It could be argued that people should always thank other people and in general, I agree with that, but I am also aware enough of human nature to know that some people won't. Therefore it is reasonable for me to assume that on occasion I won't get thanked. I am mature enough to not let &quot;thanks&quot; be an unaccounted-for payment. Life's too short to ring up debt against someone without their knowledge, consent, or will.

Furthermore, no one has yet addressed the hundreds of people who subsequently read a thread and learn. Are they, also, to be crucified if they don't explicitly thank someone? (for the record, I star archived posts when they help me) So, then, the only difference between those and the ones who this thread seems to be kvetching about are that the &quot;troublemakers&quot; are the ones who actually spoke up and asked a question.

So, thou seeketh to punish those for whom you have been created to serve?

The question &quot;Why don't more people acknowledge help?&quot; reveals more about the questioner than those against which it is applied (which is the case with most questions).

The rest I covered before.

Cheers,


Edward

&quot;Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!&quot; -- inventor of the cat door

 

[ps40life]

Interesting and humorous post!

As someone on the other side, who receives the help, I hope I always come across as grateful for the answers I receive. I have had, as someone mentioned, answers that I had no idea what to do with it. I consider myself a technical user, but I have been wrong before!

I do try to come back and post a final reply, especially if things worked out. I wouldn't mind a &quot;your welcome&quot; (as someone else mentioned), so I know the person got my thanks. Call me ignorant, but I just found out about &quot;giving stars&quot;. I can't remember where I saw it, but I immediately responded and starred the wise sage who helped me!

I love this website and don't know what I would do without it. I have recommended it to several people. I try to search out answers, but sometimes it's just tough to get the right wording. Especially if I need an answer like NOW.

So, to all of you underappreciated, unthanked, and very helpful people, here's a great big THANK YOU, and a STAR , for good measure! I know it's a Star of David. It's the only one they had in the Emoticon thingies.

Since I need to be working on my database, I should go. I actually signed in looking for answers, but this was fun!!

 

[CajunCenturion]

I do consider the failure to say thank you as being rude behavior. It is a very basic people skill. We have in these fora, often discussed the lack of people skills within the IT community, and not exercising the very basic qualities of politeness by saying thank you is but one example. It would be unreasonable even to expect moderate people skills from those who have not even the simplest command of the basics.

The observation that it’s commonplace is certainly accurate, but I do not see that as justification for acceptance of that behavior by writing it off as simply human nature. Whether or not it’s human nature as opposed to individual behavior would be an interesting anthropological discussion (another time and place), but in any event, to generalize this as human nature is unfair to those who do practice some degree of humanity to their fellow professionals. Further, to simply accept it as human nature implicitly condones the behavior, and I don’t think that provides benefit to anyone. I do and will continue to hold people to a reasonable standard of civility. I don’t settle for mediocrity, never have, and I see no reason to start just because others do so, nor will I lower my standards just to become part of a larger audience.

And EdwardMartinIII, at least in the technical fora that I frequent, there are more than a few threads where gratification is expressed both by word and by star, by those who did not ask the question. On more than one occasion, I’ve seen a question, one post with the answer, and two stars on the thread. When I look at the profile of the person who asked the question, they’ve not awarded any stars. Clearly these stars came from others who benefited by simply reading the thread. Unlike the person who posed the question, a couple of people took the time to show some gratitude and appreciation to the one who provided a beneficial answer. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of that, but on the other hand, most of the people that we’re talking about never take the time to even read the titles of threads they did not start.

I’m not proposing that you ring up debt against those who show no appreciation. But I’m also not saying that it should be disregarded and written-off. I choose not to invest my time to the benefit of an ungrateful recipient. I do look at personal profiles as part of my decision, not to see how many stars they’ve awarded, but to see how many posts they’ve made in threads they did NOT start, and to see how many posts they made in their own threads, to see if I’m willing to invest my time in their problem. Regardless of why someone chooses to answer a question, be it to seek a “thank you”, a star, a pat on the back, personal enrichment, the chance to learn something new, the challenge of a tough problem, or simply the satisfaction of philanthropy, there is almost always an element of enlightened self-interest at the root.

I have on occasion said something in the fora, and to be honest, the reaction has been mixed. Some have been apologetic and changed, recognizing they were simply taking the fora for granted, others have been quite embarrassed by their own behavior, and of course others somewhat defiant and indifferent. I’m encouraged that most responses are in the first two categories. As I said earlier, I suspect that for the most part, the fact that the discourse takes place electronically, depersonalizes the interaction, and it is in through that depersonalization that results in people skills degradation.

Generally speaking, we, because we focus too much on the technology, do have a people skills problem in IT, and IMHO, it starts with the basics, or in this case, the lack thereof.


Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[greyted]

CajunCenturion,
Well said and eloquently so.





Ted

&quot;The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell into the Thames, it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity.&quot;
Benjamin Disraeli.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Thank you greyted

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

CajunCenturion: I do consider the failure to say thank you as being rude behavior. It is a very basic people skill.

Hm. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder, I would expect. Until babies start saying &quot;thank you&quot;, I'll accordingly consider it a learned response.

&quot;Thank you&quot; is courteous and shows appreciation, but assuming the lack thereof is automatically rude doesn't quite seem cricket. This might hinge on my use of &quot;rude&quot;, which implies intent. Therefore, one cannot be unintentionally rude. One can be thoughtless or lack courtesy, but rude takes effort (as, I think, does being &quot;selfish&quot; or &quot;greedy&quot. If your version of rude doesn't require active participation, then, yes, not being courteous (according to whatever standards you choose) can automatically count as being rude.

When I believe someone is being rude in my presense, if and how it seems appropriate to the situation, I will make mention of it to them. But again, my &quot;rude&quot; requires intent and cannot accidentally or unwittingly be stumbled upon.

We have in these fora, often discussed the lack of people skills within the IT community, and not exercising the very basic qualities of politeness by saying thank you is but one example.

Discourtesy exists, I suggest, in all professional and personal stratas (it is unfortunate that IT seems to be an area where people expect non- or anti-social behavior, but it is far from the only one. Most career areas have popular prejudices and most are equally incorrect given personal experience). Courtesy selects for itself in most any environment. Those who are courteous usually receive courtesy back. Not always, but usually. Those who are discourteous or even go so far as to be rude usually discover that they don't exactly engender pleasant relationships in the people around them. Sometimes they find out why, sometimes not.

We often discuss on these pages the problems that other people have to the exclusion of our control over ourselves. This is all I'm suggesting here -- that before we attend to the splinter in &quot;their&quot; finger, we attend to the log in our eyes. Other variations of this include 'judge not lest ye be judged' and a particular paraphrase from Herman Hesse: What we despise in others we really despise in ourselves (an idea I monkey with constantly in my own internal mutterings).

The observation that it’s commonplace is certainly accurate, but I do not see that as justification for acceptance of that behavior by writing it off as simply human nature.

Neither do I.

As I mentioned earlier, it colors my behavior and modifies my responses. I select for courtesy.

...but in any event, to generalize this as human nature is unfair to those who do practice some degree of humanity to their fellow professionals.

Fairness is irrelevant -- I have made no deal to support my fellow professionals' version of humanity. We coincide on many points, my fellow professionals and I (which is pleasant and convenient), but I would no more buy their package deal than I would expect them to buy mine.

Unless babies do it, it's learned behavior (and usually taught through guilt). I act courteously whenever I can and I select for courtesy and kindness in my personal life.

Further, to simply accept it as human nature implicitly condones the behavior, and I don’t think that provides benefit to anyone.

I question the implicit premise as unprovable.

I do and will continue to hold people to a reasonable standard of civility. I don’t settle for mediocrity, never have, and I see no reason to start just because others do so, nor will I lower my standards just to become part of a larger audience.

Do as thou wilt.

And EdwardMartinIII, at least in the technical fora that I frequent, there are more than a few threads where gratification is expressed both by word and by star, by those who did not ask the question.

I have not suggested there weren't.

I’m not proposing that you ring up debt against those who show no appreciation. But I’m also not saying that it should be disregarded and written-off.

If one resents when one is not paid, it is a debt. It may only be a debt in one's mind (and these are the most pernicious of debts), but it is a debt nonetheless.

You seem to describe two options as if they are mutually exclusive, yet they aren't.

I choose not to invest my time to the benefit of an ungrateful recipient. I do look at personal profiles as part of my decision, not to see how many stars they’ve awarded, but to see how many posts they’ve made in threads they did NOT start, and to see how many posts they made in their own threads, to see if I’m willing to invest my time in their problem.

This is certainly your prerogative and an interesting way to acquire data for weighting a decision to respond to a question. I had not considered that sort of research. Thanks for explaining it.

As I said earlier, I suspect that for the most part, the fact that the discourse takes place electronically, depersonalizes the interaction, and it is in through that depersonalization that results in people skills degradation.

Perhaps.

Generally speaking, we, because we focus too much on the technology, do have a people skills problem in IT...

This is a stereotype and not -- from what I have experienced -- by and large correct. In fact, the people with whom I have worked in IT are some of the most honest and courteous people I've known. Then again, it might be because I don't much truck with obnoxious people in any scenario. Hm, now that I think about it, that's probably the case. I tend to select for courtesy.

It have seen this stereotype used (incidentally, I'm not suggesting you are doing this) to justify rude behavior, which I think is a darn shame.

Cheers,


Edward

&quot;Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!&quot; -- inventor of the cat door