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Cursive...foiled again! 4

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jebenson

Technical User
Feb 4, 2002
2,956
US
I found this story in my local daily newspaper:

With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive

the site requires a simple registration, but if you don't want to do that I have copied the story here

************************************************************
With emphasis on computers, schools are writing off cursive
By Matthew Obernauer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Wednesday, January 11, 2006
The yellowed parchment lies between armed guards in Washington's National Archives, in a palatial room with marble columns, oil paintings and polished floors — a room dubbed "the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom."

"We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . ." it begins.

For centuries, Americans have marveled at the words and ideas imbued in the Constitution, as well as the sure and steady hand that recorded those words in extravagant loops and curves.

All of which raises the question: Would we make such a fuss over the document if the founders had typed it in Microsoft Word?

Today, written communication is increasingly being replaced by computer messages. And, while adding computer proficiency requirements, school districts across Texas and the nation are de-emphasizing cursive writing in elementary school training. In higher grades, teachers are seeing less work done in cursive and more in block lettering or on computer printouts.

Furthermore, some teachers say that with the pressure to help students pass high-stakes achievement tests, they don't have time or classroom resources to ensure that students master all aspects of handwriting.

Traditional penmanship, like calligraphy before it, is fast becoming a lost art.

Irma Webber, a fifth-grade teacher at Kiker Elementary School in Southwest Austin, said only two of her 29 students write in cursive, and few have traditional penmanship skills.

"I have kids who make letters in very creative ways," she said.

The state's guidelines on cursive writing are ambiguous. When the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills curriculum requirements were adopted in 1998, the state changed the requirement that students learn to write legible cursive letters in addition to learning manuscript, or printing.
Instead, according to an October 2004 clarification, the state mandates only that in third grade "students master manuscript writing and may begin to use cursive writing." In Grades 4 through 8, however, the same clarification notes, "it is assumed that students have learned cursive handwriting by the time they enter Grade 4."

Texas Education Agency spokeswoman DeEtta Culbertson said, "We'd like them to still use cursive, but the district determines how the handwriting (instruction) will be used."
No one can say how many students are or aren't learning cursive. Still, for many, saving cursive writing is more than a matter of nostalgia.

"I would prefer them to learn both" manuscript and cursive, said Travis Heights Elementary PTA President Christina Roman, whose son is learning cursive writing in the second grade. "I do think it's a valuable lesson, and it teaches more than just how to write in cursive. It teaches pen control, coordination — stuff like that."

In response to requests from parents, Manor school district administrators this semester will decide whether to create a specific curriculum to teach cursive writing, which would require time and money to create lesson plans and train teachers. Manor Deputy Superintendent Andrew Kim said, "This is one of those issues as a community that we need to look at and see if our community says, 'We value cursive writing in an age of technology.' "

The Austin school district's third-grade language arts curriculum does not require cursive writing instruction, only that "students gain more proficient control of all aspects of penmanship." Officials said the district provides textbooks and materials for students to learn cursive writing during the second semester of second grade and in third grade but does not mandate instruction in cursive.
Some Austin teachers said there is not enough class time to teach cursive writing.

Third grade is the first year in which students are required to pass the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills reading test to advance to the next grade, increasing the pressure to stick to the required material.

Sharon Holmes taught third grade at Pecan Springs Elementary School in East Austin during the 2004-05 school year and teaches second grade this year. "We had a handwriting portion of the day," she said. "We may not have gotten to it every day, because we were working on reading and math" and science.

Patricia Detrich, a third-grade teacher at Becker Elementary School in South Austin, said, "It's difficult enough to find time as it is to teach what we're required to teach.

"I do have students who desire to learn cursive writing, so I'll provide independent time, individual teaching (outside of class) to some students to make some of the strokes," Detrich said.

Webber said she and other teachers try to teach cursive writing incrementally, such as instructing children on how to write their names. She said, "Cursive right now is a choice."

Some teachers think the marginalization of cursive writing is just as it should be — class time, they argue, is better used on other things.

"I don't feel like it's a great loss," Detrich said. "I feel like the most important things to teach these days are problem-solving, logical reasoning, critical thinking — and that doesn't have anything to do with cursive writing.

"My son, who is 15 and a freshman at Austin High, spent his entire third-grade year, and had a year of specific instruction, in cursive and has never used it since."

************************************************************

I find this interesting because last night I was working on some homework with my kindergardener child, and part of it was learning cursive. Now I don't know about you, but I feel that kindergarden is a bit too early to be teaching cursive handwriting. My son got rather confused, as he still has not mastered the lower-case alphabet in block letters, and now the cursive is really throwing him for a loop (pun intended).

So what do you folks think? Is cursive really necessary? I don't use it at all, and I know very few people who actually do use it regularly. I still write a lot by hand, but it's all in block letters. In today's society, is cursive writing still seen as elegant or could it be viewed as actually impeding communication? That is, in trying to decipher someone's chicken-scratch handwriting - or even clear cursive if the reader is unfamiliar with it - is the reader so distracted that the message of the writing is diluted or obscured?

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
 
I find writing in cursive to be much easier than printing in block letters. I've recently gone back to college, and found myself lacking in the hand-printed mediums after working on computers for a couple decades. My handwriting skills have dropped, and I've had to reaquaint myself with the written word. In class, I have been taking notes like mad, and if I had to slow down to P-R-I-N-T I-N B-L-O-C-K L-E-T-T-E-R-S, I would be far, far behind in my classes.

A question to ponder: If no one uses cursive, what will the new generations' signatures look like?

They'll all be printed, in block letters, and look identical. Nice for identity thieves!
 


So, is the basic objective of hand writing to create aesthetically pleasing markings on a paper, or clearly convey a communication?

Skip,

[glasses] [red]Be Advised![/red] The Vinyards of Texas have produced a wine with diuretic dimishment and urethric relief...
Pinot More![tongue]
 
Both. If you don't have a computer and printer around, how do you leave someone a note, write a phone message for the kids, put "return to sender" on an envelope, or put a check mark on a non-chad ballot?

Good topic here, btw. It's something I've pondered recently, and I'm glad to know I'm not a single ponderance.

(Is that a word?)
 
I think we're getting to the crux of a question I've had about cursive since having a 3rd-grade teacher decide it would be more convenient for her to make me switch to being right-handed than it would be for her to learn to teach writing to a left-handed kid. That question is:

What is the reason for the existence of cursive writing? What is cursive supposed to provide that printing does not?

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!
 


But the proponderance of evidence seems to indicate that traditional cursive handwriting is headed for extinction.

I do believe that basic handwriting ought to be taught, in order for a graduate to be able to clearly convey a communication by hand.

Advanced cursive, however, for the calligraphy wannabes.

Skip,

[glasses] [red]Be Advised![/red] The Vinyards of Texas have produced a wine with diuretic dimishment and urethric relief...
Pinot More![tongue]
 
Article said:
My son, who is 15 and a freshman at Austin High, spent his entire third-grade year, and had a year of specific instruction, in cursive and has never used it since.
I presume that he has never signed any document, written a thank-you not, or penned an inscription in a gift book.

He probably doesn't keep a journal either. Is there anyone in this forum who keeps, or kept, a journal and/or diary, and did not use cursive for the entries?

If anyone wishes to write a personal note to a friend, how do you write it? If you received a personal letter from a friend written in cursive, penmanship aside, could you read it?

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Well, I should retract my statement that I "don't use cursive at all." I actually do use it to write my signature, and when writing checks. However, I rarely write checks anymore (online bill payment, debit card), and I don't use cursive in any other situations.

The main reason I stopped using cursive was legibility, or lack thereof. My block writing (or "manuscript" as it's called in the article) is much clearer than my cursive. That's not to say that my block letters are as clear as the text here...far from it. I know many people who don't use cursive and their handwriting still is hard to decipher.

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
 
Is there anyone in this forum who keeps, or kept, a journal and/or diary, and did not use cursive for the entries?
I do.

I use cursive writing for two occasions... assigning my name to offical documents and filling out specific legal certificates for others. Because of the certificates, I had to re-learn how to write many of the letters (which don't appear in my name), like capital Q.

Everything else (personal journal, letters, greeting cards, etc.) I print.

I hated cursive when I was taught it many years ago. But the real hatred rose up when I was faced with teaching it to a mastery level to my son in 2nd grade. We would sit for 2 - 3 hours every single weeknight writing out 10 sentences with his vocabulary words in cursive. The number of pieces of paper and erasers we went through amount to nothing compared to the tears of frustration.

Other than his name, he has never been required to use the script since. At 15 he is managing quite well in the world as an honor student.

Now a really good keyboarding class would come in handy...

~Thadeus
 
If cursive isn't taught, how will anyone know how to read it if they can't write it?
 
There is certainly another benefit/result from learning cursive (and similar disciplines): brain development. There are several disciplines that are clearly related to "use-it-or-lose-it" brain development. (I.e., if we do not use/develop, by a certain age, the brain-cell connections associated with a particular discipline, we either lose that potential for life or become seriously impaired in that discipline.) Amongst such disciplines are learning a second language, mathematics, cursive handwriting, bicycle riding, arts and crafts, game playing, et cetera.

Certainly, there are myriad activities that we may have learned during our K-12 years that we "think" that we never use as adults, but, in fact, we use those brain cells/connections as an adjunct to our successes in other skills professionally. I know that my skills in math, the arts, and yes, even my cursive skills, positively affect my abilities to design effective reports and screens, for example.

And frankly (as a side bar), I would experience very high anxiety if I did not carry my calligraphy pen with me...I use calligraphy constantly...not that I need calligraphy, but more that it is an enhancement to my life and the lives of others for whom I callig. [wink]

If you eliminated all those aspects of your life that you don't need or don't use, then how bland and uninteresting would your life be? Could you even be the person that you are today?

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[ Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.
 
Dollie said:
If cursive isn't taught, how will anyone know how to read it if they can't write it?
That's what I was thinking.

Like Thadeus, I almost never use script except for my signature. I write notes and letters (I don't keep a journal) in block letters - it is much more legible than my script. That isn't saying much for my block lettering, but at least it can be deciphered.

But as Dollie points out - even though I don't write with it, it sure is handy to be able to read.

Santa said:
If you eliminated all those aspects of your life that you don't need or don't use, then how bland and uninteresting would your life be? Could you even be the person that you are today?
well said.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.
 
I read this with a bemused smile. Here in the UK I don't even know what cursive means but I guess it's that rather old fasioned handwriting that my American father in law uses (but not his daughter).

Here in the UK I was taught 'Marion Richardson' whatever that is or was. A quick Google suggests that she was a late Victorian educator. My son, now 17, was just 'taught to write' and I must admit I find his handwriting rather ugly.

But, at the end of the day, as long as it is legible, good penmanship is an added bonus, not a prerequisite. Personally my handwriting is appauling (sorry Marion) and I type everything. As I once heard
A reasonable typist can type faster than they can write legibly

Columb Healy
 
So is cursive just what I know as joined up writing (a more eight year old-friendly term!), or something more than that?

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert
 
If cursive isn't taught, how will anyone know how to read it if they can't write it?

Enter the Rosetta Stone and Hieroglyphics. It's not as though one day everyone will forget how to read cursive and there will be a whole bunch of cursive documents no one can decipher... Cursive, much like Calligraphy, will still hang around. And it isn't all that mysterious to anyone who reads handwritten, printed letters to decipher the scripted, cursive letters.

Given the illiteracy rate in the world, I think it makes more sense to lend teachers to the business of teaching any type of written communication to those who are bereft of such skills altogether rather than impart the more esoteric "stylistic" skills.

Most ancient languages of import can still be read today by scholars dedicated to the task... Cursive is only a font applied to our language... I think we'll survive.

If you eliminated all those aspects of your life that you don't need or don't use, then how bland and uninteresting would your life be? Could you even be the person that you are today?

This is a straw man argument... No one is suggesting the elimination of everything you don't need or don't use. The topic is whether teaching cursive imparts enough value to warrant additional money being applied to the school districts for such a task.

~Thadeus
 
I had no idea that cursive wasn't being taught. I learned cursive about 30 years ago, and don't have kids, so I guess I'm a little out of touch because I still see it everywhere.

Illiteracy is a huge problem where I live, and there are too few strides to change that. I guess just being able to teach a child to print is more important than I figured it was. When I first joined in this thread that thought didn't cross my mind.

The issue is quite, quite sad when you think about it....
 
I was always given to understnad that the reason for cursive writing was speed, because of the time taken to construct legible 'manuscript' or 'block writing'.

In '79 on entering secondary education, I was surprised when I met an honours student, now a dentist, who did not practice the art of 'cursive' writing. He could write as fast as the rest of us, possibly faster if cursive, but legibility for him, meant as long as he could read it.

Terry Pratchett said:
... as if written by a left handed spider, on a trampoline in an earthquake

I think he was secretly studying for pharmacy or medicine while still in school j/k

Dave, you're definitely right on the 'callig' thing, and engraving gets worse by a factor of ten**time the longer you don't practice

Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)
 
Certainly, our culture has changed drastically since most of us were in school (and learned cursive). There are many of us that did not even have access to keyboards until we were adults. The most advanced technology to which we might have had access was typewriters. And further, I consider my 100-wpm typing skills to have been far more valuable to me, professionally, than my cursive/calligraphy skills.

But...
A reasonable typist can type faster than they can write legibly
Absolutely true ! I can type 25 times faster than I can callig, But [Number 2]
Skip said:
So, is the basic objective of hand writing to create aesthetically pleasing markings on a paper, or clearly convey a communication?
Ergo, my question:
Santa's question said:
Would you rather receive a love letter from your partner or a love note from your kid that was typed at 80-100 words per minute, totally legible, in Times-Roman font, or would you rather receive it hand-written (regardless of whether it arrived in illegible scrawls or in calligraphy)?
There is a significant amount of truth in...
Marshall McLuhan said:
The media is the message.
A significant part of your message comes in the medium you choose. Although a delivery service may be much faster and less expensive, would you rather receive a gift delivered by UPS/FedEx/DHL/et cetera, or would you rather receive it in person from the benefactor?




I'm not suggesting that schools pour the same amount of money/time as they used to into teaching kids cursive...cultural needs/values have changed. But, I see a whole lot of decent reasons to give kids at least some opportunity to learn cursive, even calligraphy, perhaps as a portion of the (diminishing/virtually non-existent) Art curriculum.

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[ Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.
 
Paul said:
Terry Pratchett said:
... as if written by a left handed spider, on a trampoline in an earthquake
Wow! I never even knew Terry Pratchett had seen my handwriting!


"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert
 
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