R6 trial...any news anyone? - part 2 1

[AnonymousP]

Here we can continue our conversation!
(It is VERY difficult to scroll using Symbian's web software or using an iPhone browser!)


Help me to help you! Helping each other makes us stronger, smarter!

 

[Westi]

if you look at what Avaya claims then the prices go down, but they cherry pick their scenarios so that they can claim that it seems.
We have three coices
1. leave the Avaya product and go somewhere else
2. live with it
3. become a baker, so we can at least eat what we screw up

Joe W.

FHandw., ACS (downgraded again)

insanity is just a state of mind

 

[dphoneguy24]

Here's my take on 6.0

The writing is on the wall that the 5400 sets are going away - that's fine with me because I think they're quite ugly - BUT, we need a digital set with paperless labels! Why does anyone want to go backwards?

And, who isn't going to want a 9600IP set - at least they are not bad looking, BUT they are very expensive especially for small to medium sized multi-location users where we sell most of our IPOs - so on top of a very expensive 9600IP set I have to purchase licenses...COME ON AVAYA - get your head out of your A**.

 

[Shaun E]

Well, having read the documentation - this is the first release I've seen (3.2 through now) that I've been really disappointed with.

For our use, we get screwed over on licensing, lose a bunch of features that we're using (CCC, Delta Server, etc) and what do we gain? The ability to use 9600 series handsets. There's no other feature in R6 that leaps out at me.

I think I'll keep our system on R5 assuming the documentation that's on the knowledge base is final.

 

[tlpeter]

So you like CC and Deltaserver ?
CCR is better, easier and faster.
There are way more features but probably you do not use them.

I am exited and i like release 6.


ACS IP Office or is it ACSS
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[TheSmash]

Just a bit on info on the IP endpoint license. According to Avaya you should have an IP endpoint license per configured IP base extension. Regardless of how many sets are registered.

Has anyone ever tried configuring more than 32 extension on a Standard Edition 4.2 system? Essentially you can't (it's possible but they do not work). I wonder if this will be the same with the IP Endpoint license?

Not got my hands on the 96xx handsets yet. I'm not mourning the loss of the 54xx handsets but will miss the fact you don't have to print off labels.

For those of us who have dealt with Avaya for many years know you have to take the rough with the smooth. They never seem to make great decisions. However they have continued to advance the technology and features over the years. Compare the IP500 against a 403DT and you'll see what I mean.

Sure there is nothing "great" about 6.0 but to be fair it's just a re-badged 5.1 as they have included Partner Edition. I for one and loving Video Softphone, One-X and CCR. Quick to install and they just work.

Noew if only I could get Distributed Voicemail working...

 

[tlpeter]

The labels now more and more are just blf/user buttons.
The 1600 and the 1400 do have a great menu with a lot of option which normally needed a button.
Yes it is not as easy anymore but the users just need to use the menu.

Also give the it guy manager and less rights with security settings.
Install the Desi label tool and it is there problem if labels need to be changed.



ACS IP Office or is it ACSS
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[amriddle01]

To give an example of the real world effects of the seemingly minor licencing changes (in Avaya's eyes) with R6, we have just lost out on a bid this morning, why.....because the customer was originally quoted for 8 sites on R5 and heard about R6 and asked for a quote on the exact same system for R6, without going into too many details circa 250 users,VM and some Remote users and the price difference between R5 and R6 = £4500 per system = "Bye Bye we'll buy something else". Thanks Avaya you are really helping us out with the recesssion busting approach you've adopted

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?

 

[amriddle01]

recesssion = a long recession

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?

 

[TheSmash]

Andy, I'm sure this is an obvious question, but why didn't you just sell V5 and then upgrade to V6 and get you IP endpoint license for free as part of the upgrade (1 x VCM lic = 3 x IP Endpoint)?

Worst case there would have been a £1000 upgrade fee but in the grand scheme of things this isn't all that much.

Anyway, sorry to hear you lost the deal.

 

[amriddle01]

Because they wanted the 500v2 upon learning the 500 will be phased out (they want the most current hardware which I understand) which cannot be done on R5 plus the difference between the amount of VCM licences required and IP endpoint licences required means there would still be a sizeable price difference

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?

 

[TheSmash]

Yeah, fair point. I think a little harsh on their part to go elsewhere because of it. If you absolutely must have the latest and greatest you should be prepared to pay for it.

 

[amriddle01]

There is no/little price difference between 500 and 500v2 units and that's all that was changing in practical terms, it's the licencing that's costing the difference...it made so little sense to him he couldn't believe what we were telling him was true

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?

 

[3Sixty]

The official info about release 6.0 is in the marketplace section of the site. I used to use the license free IP phones as a selling point for Avaya now what just like every other box on the market but even more expensive. I think the Nortel purchase has went to their heads.

http://marketingtools.avaya.com/kno.../index.htm?whats_new_in_ip_office_release.htm

 

[jamie77]

licensing Avaya IP Phones will only make sense if they reduce the price of the phones.

Why should we buy a phone that is useless unless you give Avaya more money??

This will probably outprice the IPO and people won't buy it.

And on top of that we have to pay for raising support calls to Tier III!!!!!

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

Football is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[mattKnight]

I haven't done the sums, but the trade off is that VCM cards now come fully loaded i.e. don't require an extra licence. This takes the guess work out of sizing a system...

And I guess, you can use a 3rd party phone at the same licence cost...

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[3Sixty]

I understand what you are saying,

But if you had a 100 IP solution with 20 lines and vm pro you could fill a VCM 32 and enable direct media and that way if the client wanted to add another 50 ip handsets all they paid for was the handset. I have used this in many a tender situation to when the business. I know from selling the Cisco and Nortel solutions the license is almost half the cost of the phone if not more. I feel this will push the Avaya into the most expensive solution on the market in the SMB world.

Thanks

Marshall

 

[Westi]

maybe they have gotten too busy and want to slow down their business.
Just some sarcasm for the Sunday night. I wonder if they let people go with the R5 as an option if they like to

Joe W.

FHandw., ACS (downgraded again)

insanity is just a state of mind

 

[TomMills]

i think it's a bad move. i personally don't think the system (i.e. the way licensing works, not the hardware) needed changing. Everyone knew where they stood and it was a competetive product.

I agree with Westi, they cherry pick those daft scenarios to make it look good, but we never see scenarios typical of what most of us go up against on a day to day basis.

Going to have to start looking at other systems now.

http://www.twitter.com/tem1985

ACSS-SME

 

[amriddle01]

Matt, do the sums, once you are approaching 80 users it just get's more and more expensive versus the exact same equipment on R5 and not by 100's of pounds we are talking thousands

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?

 

[amriddle01]

The other thing expense people miss is the per user licencing, so if you have shift workers that logged on in say three shifts you now need 3x the licencing that you used to unless they don't have personalised handsets and mailboxes in other words you need to compromise on functions or flexibility to try and keep costs down

ACS - IP Office Implement

"What the Crocodile Hat....was that?