Politically (in)correct 11

[Trevoke]

Well, we can discuss this for hours, months, years, eons on end, but let's limit this to the current event : christmas.

Why on earth are people trying to take christmas away from the christians? December 25th *IS* christmas, and sorry to break it to you all, PC-people, but all these countries, built on christian roots, have a christian tradition.
I don't want to see "Winter break" or "winter holidays" or "whatever".
If you really, really want it to be done properly, remove the holidays altogether, because I really can't see why christians and jews would have off around that time of the year and other people wouldn't, or why people would have off when they don't even believe in the stupid happenings.
Establish a real calendar with all the holidays in the world, make people prove their religious affiliation, and then give off to people specifically for those holidays.
Now the madness is complete.

-Haben sie fosforos?
-No tiengo caballero, but I have un briquet.

 

[strongm]

Well, the Christians stole it from the pagans ...

 

[grande]

Hannukah Celebrations Deemed Politically-Incorrect

A movement in political correctness has recently declared that specific celebrations of Hannukah are to be deemed politically incorrect. In line with the well-wishing of "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas", and the widespread renaming of the "Christmas Tree" to the "Holiday Tree", the Generic Holiday Committee (GHC) feels that the Jewish "Menorah" and "Dreidel" should be hereby referred to as the "Holiday Candelabra" and the "Festive Spinning Top", respectively.

"We've been so pleased with our efforts in generalizing this holiday season," says Frederick Diefenkorn, head of the GHC. "Imagine our surprise when we realized we forgot Hannukah! It simply wouldn't stand for Hannukah to remain a meaningful and unique holiday. You have to think about the people, you know? What if a Christian child wished to play with a Festive Spinning Top? We couldn't stand by and say 'sorry, these are for the Jews', could we?"

When asked for his comments regarding other winter seasonal holidays, such as Kwanzaa, he replied, "we're not touching that crazy shit."

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.

 

[Trevoke]

I can't tell if that's serious or not; I am somewhat disillusioned when it comes to how infinitely power corrupts.

I wonder how long 'til someone says "I'm sorry, the name Rosenblaum sounds too jewish, you'll have to change it to "Rose bloom", in two words please, otherwise it might look too much like a last name. We must stay away from anything remotely distinctive!

-Haben sie fosforos?
-No tiengo caballero, but I have un briquet.

 

[Stella740pl]

Establish a real calendar with all the holidays in the world, make people prove their religious affiliation, and then give off to people specifically for those holidays.

Why madness? It's exactly what is done in many places. You, mostb often, don't have to prove your religious affiliation - just choose one and stick with it.

When I worked in the place where we had to take turns staying for after hours support, I was always glad to work other people's holidays while they let me take mine off.

If some holiday is not close to me in any way, but my company is closed for it, then I would just have a nice long weekend, and not a happy holiday, which also not that bad. I don't have to celebrate it, though, do I?

 

[Trevoke]

I am aware that my approach is perfectly sensible; but if you take a cursory glance at the US' track record when it comes to, hrm, open-mindedness, the acronym SNAFU should come to mind ;-)

-Haben sie fosforos?
-No tiengo caballero, but I have un briquet.

 

[Stella740pl]

I don't get it, are you suggesting something, or how you would like it to be, or just fretting, or what? What are you getting at?

 

[BoxHead]

I wonder how long 'til someone says "I'm sorry, the name Rosenblaum sounds too jewish, you'll have to change it to "Rose bloom",

Ellis Island sound familiar?


Fact is, I always thought that "Happy Holidays" was just common sense and courtesy. I celebrate Christmas, if someone wished me a Happy Channukah because that is what he celebrates, it would have absolutely no meaning to me whatsoever. None.

I don't wish everyone I see a 'Happy Birthday' whenever I or someone in my family celebrates a birthday. Why would I wish everyone a Merry Christmas because that's what we're doing at the BoxHead homestead?

I don't know, let me try

MERRY CHRISTMAS




John

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Well, the Christians stole it from the pagans ...

Actually, I believe it was a roman emporer who "unified" the pagan & christian celebration times.

MERRY CHRISTMAS
(Unabashedly Politically Incorrect)

 

[strongm]

Well, it was Constantine, who considered himself head of the Christian church in the Roman Empire at the time (and also head of the pagan church)...

And the Eastern Orthodox church ignored him, preferring to celebrate on Jan 6th, which had been pagan birthday celebration of the child-god Dionysusthe. It took Pope Julius 1 to get everyone to agree to the 25th

 

[tgreer]

Yep, Christmas is what it is, and is pretty much what it is, regardless of what most people say or think it is. By that I mean, it isn't "Jesus' birthday" (that's pronounced "Jezuss birthday", by the way), and so on. Jesus was born in a manger, according to the record, but was a young boy living in a house when the un-numbered (not 3) wise men visited him, etc. So all those Nativity scenes are wrong...

I'm not trying to start a debate, but just trying to point out that "Christmas" should be taken at face-value... any argument which asserts that Christmas is Christian, and the U.S. is founded on Christian traditions, so therefore Christmas should be celebrated, will fall under the weight of its own fallacies quite quickly.

I guess you could say that Christmas is as Christian as Christians are. How is THAT for politcally incorrect!

THAT SAID: I'm not offended in the least by people who choose to celebrate Christmas, nor by those who don't. If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas", a "Happy Holidays", or desires me to "Have a nice day", I recognize and acknowledge the sentiment with a "Thank you", whether nor not I'm Merry, Christian, Happy or hell-bent on having a miserable day.

Goodbye for now! Or, if the derivation of "Goodbye" from the English "God be with you" offends any atheists, I'll just say "Later", instead.

Thomas D. Greer

http://www.tgreer.com

 

[columb]

In the northern hemisphere there are four holidays

1) Spring - a head count of who made it through winter.
2) Midsummer - Wooopee - the bounty days are here again
3) Harvest - thanks to <insert deity of choice> for the harvest
4) Midwinter - the darkest day of the year.

After that I personally don't care which deity you wish to worship. Let's all take the opertunity to have a party together and if you wish to celebrate Christmas whilst I celebrate the winter solstice we can at least raise a glass together

Happy this and merry that and may your pager stay silent.

Columb Healy

 

[grande]

I was in the Jewish part of town yesterday. As I was leaving a store, the woman wished me a Happy Hannukah. I was neither shocked, or offended, and she seemed to be alright when I responded "Thank you, and have a Merry Christmas," with a smile.

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.

 

[Trevoke]

grande : that's exactly what *I* would wish for. Instead of political correctness, acceptance.
But, who am I kidding. I'm in the IT business. I know better than to have high hopes for mankind...

-Haben sie fosforos?
-No tiengo caballero, but I have un briquet.

 

[Stella740pl]

Well, I don’t like extremes, including extreme PC, myself. But the way I see it, no one is taking away Christmas from the Christians, and no one actually renames it into a non-denominational winter festival, or Christmas tree – into a holiday tree, or menorah – into a holiday candleholder.

Generalized name “Holiday Season”, or “Happy Holidays” greeting doesn’t refer to Christmas in disguise; it is just intended to make people aware that there is more than one kind of people, and more than one holiday celebrated nearly in the same time frame, and if you can’t personalize your greeting, you better generalize it (meaning, have a happy holiday of your choice, not mine).

Of course mistakes happen, as in grande’s case, and they don’t lead to the end of the world, but by grande’s response I can say that he/she would be more pleased to be wished Merry Christmas, and the lady in the store would prefer to hear “Happy Hanukah”, so why not please each other when we can? Say, my immediate manager signed each of his subordinates a personal greeting card, with the holiday of choice named. A manager above had too many people to do that, so he selected a beautiful card with no distinct symbolism of any of the holidays (not the one that has all the Christmas symbols but says "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings"), and sent all of his subordinates a generic greeting. Do you see here only foolishness and extreme PC, or also thoughtfulness?

Here is a story on a different note. As I grew up in the Soviet Union, we celebrated New Year as a really non-denominational, non-ideological, absolutely wonderful winter festival for everyone. One or two days before the holiday we trimmed New Year Fir, even if it often was a pine; the gifts were brought by Grandfather Frost (his coat was much longer than Santa’s, and a hat of a different shape, and some other differences). School winter vacation was called just that, winter vacation, and lasted from New Year to Jan.9. All children parties and ev events took place in this period. The trees went down at least after mid-January. (In case you don’t know, Christmas in Orthodox countries is celebrated a week after the New Year, and so called “old” New Year, or New Year by the Julian calendar, a week after that. Those who wanted to celebrate those holidays, did so unofficially.)

 

[Trevoke]

Stella, I completely agree with you. It's thoughtful and it works. Europe and eastern european countries usually get it about right, though, and know where to stop. The US tend to be a country of extremes, and I always get a little scared whenever something that seems only half-thought-out come along.
You do have a good point though...

-Haben sie fosforos?
-No tiengo caballero, but I have un briquet.

 

[Thadeus]

Well to take a page from George Carlin's "Have a nice day" bit - Why are we telling strangers whose religious affiliation we know nothing about to "[have a] Merry Christmas" at all? Isn't it a bit of a burden to impose on someone?

Have a Nice Day!
~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

The trees went down at least after mid-January.

Which reminded me of an old joke (translated from Russian):

A man complains: it's a beautiful sunny day in May, spring weather, young green leaves, flowers everywhere - and she just can't stop bugging me: "Throw away the tree, throw away the tree...".

 

[nicksims]

Thanks for bringing this up Trevoke. And you are correct, it is all madness! The following rant is directed towards people in general, not just you, Trevoke.

Happy Holidays? Really, nobody is taking the Christ out of Christmas or from the Christians by saying Happy Holidays. What we have is two camps of people that are just going a bit overboard on this.

As for this... "December 25th *IS* christmas, and sorry to break it to you all, PC-people, but all these countries, built on christian roots, have a christian tradition." Christmas does fall on December 25th. No argument. But all these countries? Hmmm... There may be a bit more to history in the forming of a country than just Christian roots. Sometimes, as in the case of the US, there was/is the desire to exist without a government enforcing a particular religion, but creating an atmosphere where all are allowed to practice what they choose/born with/raised/educated in... The formation of this country has quite a bit to do with ridding ourselves of British control of our economy, control of taxes, ownership of land, general civil liberties... Christmas and Christianity was not the ONLY root, but one of MANY.

Happy Holidays is simply a more polite and efficient use of a SEASON (it is NOT just "the current event : christmas") of holiday cheer. Don't forget, there are plenty who do not celebrate Christmas- we all share December. We've got Thanksgiving, New Year's Eve, and yes, Chanukah and Kwanzaa... It is a pretty busy SEASON for all. As for the Happy Holidays phrase used in retail- I find it ridiculous that people are upset over this phrase. It is unfortunate in both directions that employees (and management) are getting grief over this- and it is just as unfortunate that they are made to feel uncomfortable to say Merry Christmas or Happy Chanukah, or whatever.

What would be a bit better is that if you actually speak with and observe people, pay a little attention, and wish THEM good cheer in the holiday of THEIR religion or choice, instead of wishing them good cheer for YOUR holiday. Basically, a little consideration.

Happy Holidays has of course gotten a bit generic. Then again, hasn't Christmas shopping, Christmas advertising, and oh my, thinking about toys instead of people and religion?

Christmas is no doubt a huge holiday, but by no means the only one. We all look at it a little differently. Nobody I know was present at the manger, nor can I find a really old relative who can tell me the details. So over time, Christmas is celebrated differently throughout this country and the world. Traditions have evolved- and nobody is right or wrong.

So I'm done here with this- when you speak with someone, wish them whatever you like- but why not pay attention (even the smallest bit) and wish them Merry Christmas (with Christ), Happy Chanukah, or whatever THEY celebrate. And if somebody says Happy Holidays, they are at least making an effort for they might not know you well enough.

I hope you all enjoy your Christmas, Chanukah, time off from work, family time...

Nick (not Saint!)

 

[tgreer]

Wow, I have to jump in on this point:

Nobody I know was present at the manger, nor can I find a really old relative who can tell me the details.

If you don't accept the one document accepted by nominal Christians, which does provide details on the matter in question (Christ's birth), then why even celebrate Christmas? Rather, why pretend that Christmas has anything to do with Christianity or the birth of Christ?

The fact is, those details, which are provided, don't have anything at all to do with the celebration called "Christmas". The date, the evergreens, the gift-exchange, all have well-documented pagan origins.

I think we're all saying the same thing: show common courtesy, be polite, let folks celebrate what they want. We should leave it at that. These arguments, though, that are based on murky associations between the holidays and Christianity and "Christian tradition" cloud the issue.

Yes, Christmas is December 25th. That doesn't make it "Christian" - in fact Christmas is and always has been a secular holiday. Witness the fact that many non-Christians and "non-Christian" countries celebrate the day enthusiastically.

Thus the idea that "Merry Christmas" is offensive to certain religions is ridiculous to me, since "Christmas" has never been Christian.



Thomas D. Greer

http://www.tgreer.com