hostedtelephone
Programmer
we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone. do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???
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is the pabx dead 21
- Thread starter hostedtelephone
- Start date
- Status
phoneguy610
Programmer
or a hospital with 1500 users
or a school with 1000+ etc etc
hosteds childish turning his head to the facts is going to be his downfall. Our company provides all so job security here is not a problem as well.
He should look at the fact that many of us do install both so we are not hating on hosted for fear of unemployment. We just know what the better product is.
Any sales guy can twist numbers to make it "appear" the customer is getting a better product
but after they start to see the facts, good luck maintaining a relationship with them.
Go ahead hosted make us more $$$ , im not going to argue
or a school with 1000+ etc etc
hosteds childish turning his head to the facts is going to be his downfall. Our company provides all so job security here is not a problem as well.
He should look at the fact that many of us do install both so we are not hating on hosted for fear of unemployment. We just know what the better product is.
Any sales guy can twist numbers to make it "appear" the customer is getting a better product
but after they start to see the facts, good luck maintaining a relationship with them.
Go ahead hosted make us more $$$ , im not going to argue
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
No one in our little burg would even sell us hosted if we wanted it.
Now that tells me something.
Now that tells me something.
We are going to make it to 100 on this thread. As far as the BCM not being future proof I think Avaya has that under control. The BCM is still selling pretty well all over from everything I can see. It's still going to be supported by Avaya from the last bulletin I saw until 2018.
“Avaya will further provide hardware and software Extended Services Support, including technical support, availability of existing patches and documentation, repair services, for three (3) years (October 1, 2018) after the Manufacturer’s Support period “
I have no problem recommending the BCM to anyone.
“Avaya will further provide hardware and software Extended Services Support, including technical support, availability of existing patches and documentation, repair services, for three (3) years (October 1, 2018) after the Manufacturer’s Support period “
I have no problem recommending the BCM to anyone.
- Thread starter
- #84
hostedtelephone
Programmer
The problem with the bcm is that most people know nortel went bust and it puts them off. We used to sell loads of them. They were a good basic system with some nice features but once notel went bust no one would touch it. I know avaya is now supporting it but thats more of a way for them to get the customers onto ip office its a shame really because it was a cheapish reliable system
phoneguy610
Programmer
We don't sell the bcm unless it s requested, which is quite often. We did 3 last month alone. And that says something because we are mainly a toshiba and Avaya shop.
Every one of your arguments is invalid.
You have not proven a single point you have tried to make
First is was it was cheaper (wrong)
Then more reliable (horribly wrong)
Then more features (lol)
Now it's we sell more then you (yea I'm sure)
I'm sure I'm missing another one or two statements that have been disproven
And you have ignored the fact that when hosted is reliable enough the name brands are going to be chosen over your no name free Pbx crap
Every one of your arguments is invalid.
You have not proven a single point you have tried to make
First is was it was cheaper (wrong)
Then more reliable (horribly wrong)
Then more features (lol)
Now it's we sell more then you (yea I'm sure)
I'm sure I'm missing another one or two statements that have been disproven
And you have ignored the fact that when hosted is reliable enough the name brands are going to be chosen over your no name free Pbx crap
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1
- #86
itpphoneguy
Technical User
Interesting as all this may be, phoneguy610 has illustrated the basic point here. There isn't enough bandwidth - yet, and at reasonable cost to most consumers. There's the battle of the future, bandwidth. Once you deliver that reliably, the apps will follow. So far, this is not the case. Maybe in some pockets, but on average - not even close.
What will be the shape of phone systems in the future? This is anyone's guess. The counter argument will most probably be concerned with security and access to tracking information (for advertising, of course!). How would you like to be "chipped", only to have "approved" advertising sent right to your brain? A hosted "solution" (to what is it a solution?) is in fact only software that appliances talk to. The track record for most software is abysmal when it comes to quality metrics. I suspect that this "product" is merely a bold push to sell communication as a service. Since there is very little outlay beyond licensing fees (tell us developers, just how much markup is there in here? I know it must be massive) leading to obscene profits. The sharing with some low morals type dealers provides the market push they need to create market traction. Coupled with slightly lower buy in cost for the client (leveraging the something for nothing gene in consumers) is hoped to provide the final momentum to falsely create the image of reliability to complete the total illusion.
If there is anyone here who doubts what kinds of profits are generated by writing software, just have a gander at Micro$oft and other similar companies. I'll bet the the actual expenditure for their operating systems is concentrated in anti-theft of software. What is being sold is essentially ... nothing. One copy they decide to release, and the packaging/advertising is really the bulk of their production costs. Now, how could this become even more profitable? Hell, no packaging or media at all! How? Hosted communications solutions. Man, I hate that phrase, "hosted solution", as if it's good for anyone. How about the theft issue? Software as a service where the actual code is no longer valuable, but the license to operate it is. Once you consider these things in those terms, you have a better understanding of the central issues here.
Smoke, mirrors, vapour-ware. I'm not buying into this at all. Besides, massive amounts of bandwidth available for simply cracking the common software code ... now that is worth some effort for some folks. This is probably a lot of fun as well. It doesn't take much to gain access to a large body of running common code, and even less to deny service by crashing the works. Probably even more fun. Remember all the trouble windows users suffer through.
-Chris
What will be the shape of phone systems in the future? This is anyone's guess. The counter argument will most probably be concerned with security and access to tracking information (for advertising, of course!). How would you like to be "chipped", only to have "approved" advertising sent right to your brain? A hosted "solution" (to what is it a solution?) is in fact only software that appliances talk to. The track record for most software is abysmal when it comes to quality metrics. I suspect that this "product" is merely a bold push to sell communication as a service. Since there is very little outlay beyond licensing fees (tell us developers, just how much markup is there in here? I know it must be massive) leading to obscene profits. The sharing with some low morals type dealers provides the market push they need to create market traction. Coupled with slightly lower buy in cost for the client (leveraging the something for nothing gene in consumers) is hoped to provide the final momentum to falsely create the image of reliability to complete the total illusion.
If there is anyone here who doubts what kinds of profits are generated by writing software, just have a gander at Micro$oft and other similar companies. I'll bet the the actual expenditure for their operating systems is concentrated in anti-theft of software. What is being sold is essentially ... nothing. One copy they decide to release, and the packaging/advertising is really the bulk of their production costs. Now, how could this become even more profitable? Hell, no packaging or media at all! How? Hosted communications solutions. Man, I hate that phrase, "hosted solution", as if it's good for anyone. How about the theft issue? Software as a service where the actual code is no longer valuable, but the license to operate it is. Once you consider these things in those terms, you have a better understanding of the central issues here.
Smoke, mirrors, vapour-ware. I'm not buying into this at all. Besides, massive amounts of bandwidth available for simply cracking the common software code ... now that is worth some effort for some folks. This is probably a lot of fun as well. It doesn't take much to gain access to a large body of running common code, and even less to deny service by crashing the works. Probably even more fun. Remember all the trouble windows users suffer through.
-Chris
GordonKapesMZ4
Programmer
Chris,
Nortel's Norstar and BCM with near perfect reliability installed in our over 8,000 USA stores since 1988 is hardly a terrible system. I think you need to counter your opinions about Nortel with a real life business case.
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer
Nortel's Norstar and BCM with near perfect reliability installed in our over 8,000 USA stores since 1988 is hardly a terrible system. I think you need to counter your opinions about Nortel with a real life business case.
Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer
I agree with Hosted that the PBX is dying but Hosted IP did not cause it's demise and is not necessarily it's replacement. Ours aren't dead yet and until I've squeezed every last cent out of them or our needs change I don't replace.
"Hosted IP voice offers companies all the functionality and enhanced calling features you expect from a high-end PBX or Key system, without having to purchase expensive equipment or install and maintain it." (vendor whitepaper)
All this from the same company that dutifully sold Centrex, PBX's, Key systems, patches and upgrades now send me the same tired business cases for Features, ROI and TCO for Hosted IP that they did for PBX and PBX Upgrades.
Is it any wonder there is reluctance from those of us who buy, install, manage and program systems to endorse a single product or industry direction?
We make our own decisions based on our need, anticipated financial position and desire to have an equipment life-cycle that isn't gone within four months. If a Hosted Ip is practical for us, I'll buy it. If it isn't, I won't.
KE407122
"The phone was working fine before it knocked over my coffee.
"Hosted IP voice offers companies all the functionality and enhanced calling features you expect from a high-end PBX or Key system, without having to purchase expensive equipment or install and maintain it." (vendor whitepaper)
All this from the same company that dutifully sold Centrex, PBX's, Key systems, patches and upgrades now send me the same tired business cases for Features, ROI and TCO for Hosted IP that they did for PBX and PBX Upgrades.
Is it any wonder there is reluctance from those of us who buy, install, manage and program systems to endorse a single product or industry direction?
We make our own decisions based on our need, anticipated financial position and desire to have an equipment life-cycle that isn't gone within four months. If a Hosted Ip is practical for us, I'll buy it. If it isn't, I won't.
KE407122
"The phone was working fine before it knocked over my coffee.
I'm still waiting to find out what these magic devices are that Hosted uses, they appear not to be Softswitches (which are PBX's by another name) and they of course are not PBX's.
So what is this Magical device?
My money is on an Asterisk.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
So what is this Magical device?
My money is on an Asterisk.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
According to Webster, asterisk "indicates footnote references, omissions, etc". Mmmmm, something to think about.
phoneguy610
Programmer
Asterisk or free Pbx based From what I have seen
hairlessupportmonkey
IS-IT--Management
I always shudder when I see "Asterisk" in the SIP header.......
ACSS - SME
General Geek
ACSS - SME
General Geek
To my mind hosted is more suited to small branch offices distributed over a wide geographical area.
A single site with numerous phones is in my opinion still better of with a BPX.
I do not believe the choice is either/or but one of use the correct tool for the correct job.
A Maintenance contract is essential, not a Luxury.
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear
A single site with numerous phones is in my opinion still better of with a BPX.
I do not believe the choice is either/or but one of use the correct tool for the correct job.
A Maintenance contract is essential, not a Luxury.
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear
curlycord
Programmer
"Today’s Hosted is yesterday’s Centrex……."
Tru dat
Star for that one brotha.
"we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone"
Could that be the help of your sales dept pushing hosted?.
LOL
"do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???"
Well, today's onsite VoIP system its 4 screws to the data rack vs the past of over sized modules upon modules so my answer is.....NO!!!!.
Sure some go hosted but a lot revert back too!
Both Hosted and onsite VoIP system will be here for a long time....just like Centrex and PBX coexisted, nothing has changed except both their technologies have both gone VoIP.
The whole idea of onsite is competition as well control and ownership don't forget.
=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
Tru dat
Star for that one brotha.
"we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone"
Could that be the help of your sales dept pushing hosted?.
LOL
"do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???"
Well, today's onsite VoIP system its 4 screws to the data rack vs the past of over sized modules upon modules so my answer is.....NO!!!!.
Sure some go hosted but a lot revert back too!
Both Hosted and onsite VoIP system will be here for a long time....just like Centrex and PBX coexisted, nothing has changed except both their technologies have both gone VoIP.
The whole idea of onsite is competition as well control and ownership don't forget.
=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
shuswap
Technical User
- Nov 5, 2012
- 11
As a person that works 99% on OP construction (rural). With an analog line you can go out 100.000 feet+ (loaded)
While having digital fascilities are nice, they are not always available.
So my vote would be PABX with an analog line card still has its place.
While having digital fascilities are nice, they are not always available.
So my vote would be PABX with an analog line card still has its place.
macphoneguy
IS-IT--Management
the PBX is definately here to stay as is the Key system,
there are two many Flavors of PBX and Key systems, I do not for 1 Minute believe there is a 1 size fits all,
solution hardwarewise as there are too many customers out there with drastically different needs,
you wouldn't take a Vegetarian to Burger King, would you ?
there are two many Flavors of PBX and Key systems, I do not for 1 Minute believe there is a 1 size fits all,
solution hardwarewise as there are too many customers out there with drastically different needs,
you wouldn't take a Vegetarian to Burger King, would you ?
While PBX is here to stay,its key system incarnation is on its way out, simply because of SIP and VoIP in general, not counting PRI and BRI. There are no more copper infrastructure going up, mostly fiber. As 50+Mbps Internet connections are becoming the new 5Mbps of a decade ago, analog/copper is being phased out.
phoneguy610
Programmer
yes that i agree on... KEY is just about done... When someone can get a 23 channels with a pri for less than 1k a month i really dont see them paying 2500 for the same thing on copper. It just doesnt make sense.
And i am sure 10-15 years from now the hybrid VOIP/DIGITAL systems that dominate the market now will also be nearing end of life.
But, there is still plenty of life to be had
ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel
ACIS
And i am sure 10-15 years from now the hybrid VOIP/DIGITAL systems that dominate the market now will also be nearing end of life.
But, there is still plenty of life to be had
ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/Nortel
ACIS
- Status
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