hostedtelephone
Programmer
we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone. do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???
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is the pabx dead 21
- Thread starter hostedtelephone
- Start date
- Status
- Thread starter
- #61
hostedtelephone
Programmer
Its not called greed its called business sence. all dealers on here are there to make a profit no profit no job so you need to get into the real world and I have 30 years in the business from installing small 20 extn up to 2000-3000 user systems. We know that hosted does not suit all places and we have other solutions that we install in these places from avaya shortel and Panasonic Modern hosted is nothing like Centrex for its reliability and functionality. All I am hearing on this thread is replies from end users who do not understand modern hosted telephony its concepts and benefits. To sum it up if you are a dealer that is happy installing bits of tin then you carry on. But don’t be surprised when a dealer comes along taking all your customers and putting them on hosted.
mattKnight
Programmer
Educate us then.
Please give me lesson on the concepts and benefits of hosted telecoms.
Take Care
Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.
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- #63
itpphoneguy
Technical User
Hi hostedtelephone,
Ahhh, business. Now there is a topic I know extremely well.
A business is there to serve it's customer base and provide assistance in selecting the best solution for it's customers. It's not an extremely difficult concept to understand, but I see so many people getting this simple thing completely wrong. In my view, pushing boxes and / or services that are not in the best interest of the end user is ... greed. Because that is the prime motivation for carrying out that business plan.
We are not in business to push boxes - whether they be at your location or the customer's location. This is a critical difference between how you conduct business, and many others. Sadly, it is your right to operate as you see fit without regard to what the customer actually needs. What a customer thinks they want is often the result of advertising and mis-information. It is our job to listen to their desires and consider what impacts this may have on how their communications systems will behave in the real world. You can't responsibly take what they are asking for and provide it without doing some thinking and education. If anyone here operates like that, they should be replaced with some code on a web-page. That's about how useful they are.
As for taking customers, that isn't happening to us. In fact, we are gaining customers through referrals and installation disaster mitigation. That's where we utilize as much customer equipment as possible (given that it's not really old, or in poor condition) and provide a solution that actually works. At the moment, we have a customer that was about to go with a SIP solution for there inbound lines and extensions. At over 200 sets, it's not a small site, nor huge. The problem with this is ... they are a medical facility that currently is running on Definity and a PRI. Quite frankly, the old Definity and PRI is the proper solution. Changing this to a hosted solution would be completely irresponsible by anyone's standards. Internal communication is every bit as important as connecting with the outside world. They have a hundred or so patients at all times. I can't believe someone was so uneducated as to recommend SIP lines to this facility, but they area a firm rooted in the data world, and they just don't get what the problem is. Yeah, I spoke with them. How they were ever certified for this kind of work beats me, but their reduced cost "help" to the customer is only setting up for disaster. Of course, once duly warned, if they decide to go with a hosted solution (that word solution seems odd in this context), we will certainly provide that. However, the programming will reflect the concerns with this method.
So, go ahead and attempt to snatch customers who may be using the best solution already. You may even keep a few of them, but not many. Besides, telephony as a service really tastes bad in my mouth.
As for systems that run all TDM type sets, IP Office (which I like now that it's at IP 500 V2 8.44)that will run 100 TDM sets. The Magix is gone, not that that makes me sad, but there is another brand that I didn't see mentioned anywhere. That is the Eon product line. Those can be massively sized, fully redundant systems. Last time I looked at how large their systems got, they were at OC-48 . Think about that size for a moment. Yes, that's a purely digital data system, but Eon systems can be had as small, single office systems too. Petsmart used to use these, and they are reliable beyond what is normally seen out there. Compared to a hosted "solution", these are more flexible and win hands down, never mind they also handle all the data if you want.
No, hosted solutions only look to me like a product designed to sell with minimal hardware and value to the end user. Too many ways to burn these down. Just wait 'till the hackers start with these!
I wish the Partner ACS had not been discontinued, but an IP Office with the C-110 module compares very favourably to the Partner. They just can't learn to program it themselves anymore.
-Chris
Ahhh, business. Now there is a topic I know extremely well.
A business is there to serve it's customer base and provide assistance in selecting the best solution for it's customers. It's not an extremely difficult concept to understand, but I see so many people getting this simple thing completely wrong. In my view, pushing boxes and / or services that are not in the best interest of the end user is ... greed. Because that is the prime motivation for carrying out that business plan.
We are not in business to push boxes - whether they be at your location or the customer's location. This is a critical difference between how you conduct business, and many others. Sadly, it is your right to operate as you see fit without regard to what the customer actually needs. What a customer thinks they want is often the result of advertising and mis-information. It is our job to listen to their desires and consider what impacts this may have on how their communications systems will behave in the real world. You can't responsibly take what they are asking for and provide it without doing some thinking and education. If anyone here operates like that, they should be replaced with some code on a web-page. That's about how useful they are.
As for taking customers, that isn't happening to us. In fact, we are gaining customers through referrals and installation disaster mitigation. That's where we utilize as much customer equipment as possible (given that it's not really old, or in poor condition) and provide a solution that actually works. At the moment, we have a customer that was about to go with a SIP solution for there inbound lines and extensions. At over 200 sets, it's not a small site, nor huge. The problem with this is ... they are a medical facility that currently is running on Definity and a PRI. Quite frankly, the old Definity and PRI is the proper solution. Changing this to a hosted solution would be completely irresponsible by anyone's standards. Internal communication is every bit as important as connecting with the outside world. They have a hundred or so patients at all times. I can't believe someone was so uneducated as to recommend SIP lines to this facility, but they area a firm rooted in the data world, and they just don't get what the problem is. Yeah, I spoke with them. How they were ever certified for this kind of work beats me, but their reduced cost "help" to the customer is only setting up for disaster. Of course, once duly warned, if they decide to go with a hosted solution (that word solution seems odd in this context), we will certainly provide that. However, the programming will reflect the concerns with this method.
So, go ahead and attempt to snatch customers who may be using the best solution already. You may even keep a few of them, but not many. Besides, telephony as a service really tastes bad in my mouth.
As for systems that run all TDM type sets, IP Office (which I like now that it's at IP 500 V2 8.44)that will run 100 TDM sets. The Magix is gone, not that that makes me sad, but there is another brand that I didn't see mentioned anywhere. That is the Eon product line. Those can be massively sized, fully redundant systems. Last time I looked at how large their systems got, they were at OC-48 . Think about that size for a moment. Yes, that's a purely digital data system, but Eon systems can be had as small, single office systems too. Petsmart used to use these, and they are reliable beyond what is normally seen out there. Compared to a hosted "solution", these are more flexible and win hands down, never mind they also handle all the data if you want.
No, hosted solutions only look to me like a product designed to sell with minimal hardware and value to the end user. Too many ways to burn these down. Just wait 'till the hackers start with these!
I wish the Partner ACS had not been discontinued, but an IP Office with the C-110 module compares very favourably to the Partner. They just can't learn to program it themselves anymore.
-Chris
- Thread starter
- #64
hostedtelephone
Programmer
So, go ahead and attempt to snatch customers who may be using the best solution already. You may even keep a few of them, but not many. Besides, telephony as a service really tastes bad in my mouth
Telephony is a service. we allways sell the best solution for the customer as that is where we make our money on our skill and reputation. we have not lost a customer yet that is on hosted and the platform we use has over 30000 users on it at the moment .And now Bt are about to launch there solution i am sorry but like i said at the begining the days of the pabx are numberd
Telephony is a service. we allways sell the best solution for the customer as that is where we make our money on our skill and reputation. we have not lost a customer yet that is on hosted and the platform we use has over 30000 users on it at the moment .And now Bt are about to launch there solution i am sorry but like i said at the begining the days of the pabx are numberd
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- #65
The Merlin platform was one of most reliable ones on the market. From the 206 to the Magix, there were millions of systems installed. Even today, there are lots of 410s still in use after decades of service. ![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
Unlike the Definity, the Legend & Magix are limited when it comes to ISDN/PRI. But the hardware & software was very stable and did not need constant upgrades/patches to resolve bugs. The releasing patches to resolve bugs is routine/commonplace in the IT world, it is generally not in the TDM/PBX world.
Sadly, Avaya made a mess of the Partner ACS R7 processor. Several patches had to be issued to get the system where Avaya needed it to be. The R8 processor was good, but it had a "short" life. Today, 5x9 Partner ACS processors sell at a premium price on the aftermarket.
I![[love2]](/data/assets/smilies/love2.gif "[love2] [love2]")
"FEATURE 00
Unlike the Definity, the Legend & Magix are limited when it comes to ISDN/PRI. But the hardware & software was very stable and did not need constant upgrades/patches to resolve bugs. The releasing patches to resolve bugs is routine/commonplace in the IT world, it is generally not in the TDM/PBX world.
Sadly, Avaya made a mess of the Partner ACS R7 processor. Several patches had to be issued to get the system where Avaya needed it to be. The R8 processor was good, but it had a "short" life. Today, 5x9 Partner ACS processors sell at a premium price on the aftermarket.
I
"FEATURE 00
GordonKapesMZ4
Programmer
In addition, the NT SL-1,Meridian 1, SL-100, and CS1000/2100 are probably the most reliable systems on the market. Honestly I work for a large retail chain with over 8,000 locations in the USA. We were 100% Nortel based until in the early 2000's Nortel failed to come in and market to our IT people....and thusly Cisco won the contract.
Most of our corporate campus has Cisco Call Manager, BUT a few buildings still have Option 81cs.....Guess which ones never fail, never go down, and never need to be patched?? Well the Option81c of course. At least once a week the Cisco phone at my desk drops a call or becomes disconnected to the server.
Nortel knew how to build voice and IP systems.....Cisco is "cool and popular" so I guess they win....I prefer the Nortel/Avaya product and now the Emetrotel IP-PBX as it keeps the Nortel tradition going on.
Most of our corporate campus has Cisco Call Manager, BUT a few buildings still have Option 81cs.....Guess which ones never fail, never go down, and never need to be patched?? Well the Option81c of course. At least once a week the Cisco phone at my desk drops a call or becomes disconnected to the server.
Nortel knew how to build voice and IP systems.....Cisco is "cool and popular" so I guess they win....I prefer the Nortel/Avaya product and now the Emetrotel IP-PBX as it keeps the Nortel tradition going on.
Man, I want one of them VoIP systems so I can save some money.
I had one of those miserable "hosted" systems called Centrex for 3 years. you may say that it's different, but it really wasn't. It was super when I had an off-premise station and could forward my calls, or work from home, but over the course of 3 years, it became cheaper to forward calls to my VoIP line and dual ring my cell phone.
Except for the banks, I haven't seen the big retail push to bring "hosted" to the desktop. Some smaller chains have and some don't. The most compelling reason would be for centralized control, but we see more stores going to SIP delivery or alternative carriers terminating on a PBX or key system.
LkEErie
I had one of those miserable "hosted" systems called Centrex for 3 years. you may say that it's different, but it really wasn't. It was super when I had an off-premise station and could forward my calls, or work from home, but over the course of 3 years, it became cheaper to forward calls to my VoIP line and dual ring my cell phone.
Except for the banks, I haven't seen the big retail push to bring "hosted" to the desktop. Some smaller chains have and some don't. The most compelling reason would be for centralized control, but we see more stores going to SIP delivery or alternative carriers terminating on a PBX or key system.
LkEErie
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- #69
No you don't, let me ammend
[/Quote]we allways sell the best solution for the customer that we are able to provide as that is where we make our money on our skill and reputation.
Silly question, but what platform does you service actually run on, or is it magic pixie dust?
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
- Thread starter
- #70
hostedtelephone
Programmer
no we supply the best solution for the customer even if it means we pass the customer to a third party and no it dosent run on magic pixi dust it runs on carrier grade servers and routers in one of the main data centers in london and i look forward to meeting you soon when we rip out the old tin you have and replace it with a proper system ;-)
Ah so something like a Huawei U1980 running on Huawei Networking kit then (carrier grade kit)? Only reason I ask is we're looking at that for in house stuff.
Or by servers do you mean something like HP Non-Stops?
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
Or by servers do you mean something like HP Non-Stops?
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
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1
- #72
phoneguy610
Programmer
wow this hosted guy is pissing people off everywhere with his kindergarten knowledge level and made up facts
i would like to add onto the we are losing customers to hosted bit..
we offer hosted as well as premise based (we have only sold 1 hosted system since we started offering it 2 years ago, compared to about 100 or so premise based.
I would also like to add that in that same time we have gained about 10 new customers after they encountered the disasters of hosted. One customer even explained to us that they were down for about 2-3 days per MONTH. That is crazy!!!
I will admit we have lost 1 to hosted recently, but i forsee a call from them in the near future. They all come back lol.
So i gained 10 you lost 10
I lost 1 you gained 1
Tell me again how your hosted system is stealing all of the customer base
(condescending wonka voice)
i would like to add onto the we are losing customers to hosted bit..
we offer hosted as well as premise based (we have only sold 1 hosted system since we started offering it 2 years ago, compared to about 100 or so premise based.
I would also like to add that in that same time we have gained about 10 new customers after they encountered the disasters of hosted. One customer even explained to us that they were down for about 2-3 days per MONTH. That is crazy!!!
I will admit we have lost 1 to hosted recently, but i forsee a call from them in the near future. They all come back lol.
So i gained 10 you lost 10
I lost 1 you gained 1
Tell me again how your hosted system is stealing all of the customer base
(condescending wonka voice)
- Thread starter
- #73
hostedtelephone
Programmer
You need to get your facts straight before you start slaging people off. if you have been ripping hosted out then obviously it was installed by people that didn’t know what they were doing all I can say is from my companies experience we have seen a massive increase in sales and like I said at the beginning of the thread we now have well over 5000 seats running ranging from 1 user up to 850 across 20 sites and our customers love it. The problem is that most telecom dealers do not have the skill or experience to install a hosted system properly you need allot of telecom and IT knowledge which most pure telecom dealers do not have.
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- #74
Hey hostedtelephone,
I believe you were asked what your platform was, that is so very superior to all those "tin boxes" the majority of people on this thread have skill and experience in.
Any chance you can enlighten us to the way of the future?
I believe you were asked what your platform was, that is so very superior to all those "tin boxes" the majority of people on this thread have skill and experience in.
Any chance you can enlighten us to the way of the future?
itpphoneguy
Technical User
Hi hostedtelephone,
Gee, I thought I was dealing with a connectivity professional. Silly me, I completely forgot to look at your job designation. Programmer. That says it all really as your responses are exactly what I here from those same disconnected IT pros. I'd say you're at least a couple layers of abstraction away from reality. The other folks with the same job title have a far more accurate feel for what makes a workers telephone go ring, ring. And they make sure that phone usually does ring when it should.
What happens when a line gets noisy to your clients? Well, DSL usually cuts out, so does cable, but there is no analog equivalent with which to hear problems. Normally you will deliver your service on the least expensive transport, which excludes something reliable like a T1 in any flavour. That means the connection dies in silence as far as the telco or cable provider is concerned. Perfect for anything beyond a small office (use your cell phones) or retail store. Anything else, like a factory depends on 911 response as a legal responsibility. I guess it's okay, because today cell phones have GPS built in.
For the poor fella using a KEY system on POTS lines, they call the telco in between other calls and report the noise. Or, they use another line. Either way, those people are still in business.
As for "tin on the wall", or in a rack (cause we put systems in that way as well), it's true that the Magix is one of the most reliable systems out there. The Partner is pretty reliable as long as you use the newer 5 slot carrier, hate those two slot demons though! But, the Magix is a bear to get fancy with for most people. You have to continually "fake it out" to get what you want. I'll even push for Toshiba and Panasonic systems. What I can't agree with is almost anything Nortel designed. They are junk, expensive junk as soon as you try to do anything with them. You can cover a wall with that crap and still be out performed by a small Partner or Magix system, with a savings in power to boot. I'm not kidding, they are not reliable systems, sorry. Even the great BCM has a propensity to fail, and that is very probably what really killed Nortel. Not the CO switches they sold to companies that went belly up. I highly doubt that story.
Bottom line. Hosted solutions are not reliable, period. We use these, but the hosting hardware is hung on the client's premises and runs a pile of SIP phones around the world. Yep, we have done those as well. Within the building, you can't beat digital phones, and you do not lose any features doing it that way. You still have screen pops and all the other toys, so a hosted (vapour ware) solution gains you nothing, unless you like to go home 'cause you can't work.
-Chris
Gee, I thought I was dealing with a connectivity professional. Silly me, I completely forgot to look at your job designation. Programmer. That says it all really as your responses are exactly what I here from those same disconnected IT pros. I'd say you're at least a couple layers of abstraction away from reality. The other folks with the same job title have a far more accurate feel for what makes a workers telephone go ring, ring. And they make sure that phone usually does ring when it should.
What happens when a line gets noisy to your clients? Well, DSL usually cuts out, so does cable, but there is no analog equivalent with which to hear problems. Normally you will deliver your service on the least expensive transport, which excludes something reliable like a T1 in any flavour. That means the connection dies in silence as far as the telco or cable provider is concerned. Perfect for anything beyond a small office (use your cell phones) or retail store. Anything else, like a factory depends on 911 response as a legal responsibility. I guess it's okay, because today cell phones have GPS built in.
For the poor fella using a KEY system on POTS lines, they call the telco in between other calls and report the noise. Or, they use another line. Either way, those people are still in business.
As for "tin on the wall", or in a rack (cause we put systems in that way as well), it's true that the Magix is one of the most reliable systems out there. The Partner is pretty reliable as long as you use the newer 5 slot carrier, hate those two slot demons though! But, the Magix is a bear to get fancy with for most people. You have to continually "fake it out" to get what you want. I'll even push for Toshiba and Panasonic systems. What I can't agree with is almost anything Nortel designed. They are junk, expensive junk as soon as you try to do anything with them. You can cover a wall with that crap and still be out performed by a small Partner or Magix system, with a savings in power to boot. I'm not kidding, they are not reliable systems, sorry. Even the great BCM has a propensity to fail, and that is very probably what really killed Nortel. Not the CO switches they sold to companies that went belly up. I highly doubt that story.
Bottom line. Hosted solutions are not reliable, period. We use these, but the hosting hardware is hung on the client's premises and runs a pile of SIP phones around the world. Yep, we have done those as well. Within the building, you can't beat digital phones, and you do not lose any features doing it that way. You still have screen pops and all the other toys, so a hosted (vapour ware) solution gains you nothing, unless you like to go home 'cause you can't work.
-Chris
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- #76
phoneguy610
Programmer
hosted-
thats funny because i worked for an IT company for years and have a very high IT knowledge level.
The best part is i have a family member who owns a hosted company so i know the product very well.
The owner of that company used to be VP of a huge IT company for a long time so he is very pro network. He always vlans off his switches and provides qos.
His networks are by far the best i have seen of any hosted provider out there and i am 100 % sure they are superior to yours as just reading your posts and talking to him (who knows his stuff) i can tell his knowledge level is far greater.
But even with his he gets voice quality issues.
It will be there one day, but the technology is not quite there yet for it to be as reliable as it needs to be. And when it is at that point, we will be hosting these "tin cans" ourselves in our own data centers. So good luck with your no name crap.
and by how angry you are getting without supporting your arguments whatsover just further backs my point
thats funny because i worked for an IT company for years and have a very high IT knowledge level.
The best part is i have a family member who owns a hosted company so i know the product very well.
The owner of that company used to be VP of a huge IT company for a long time so he is very pro network. He always vlans off his switches and provides qos.
His networks are by far the best i have seen of any hosted provider out there and i am 100 % sure they are superior to yours as just reading your posts and talking to him (who knows his stuff) i can tell his knowledge level is far greater.
But even with his he gets voice quality issues.
It will be there one day, but the technology is not quite there yet for it to be as reliable as it needs to be. And when it is at that point, we will be hosting these "tin cans" ourselves in our own data centers. So good luck with your no name crap.
and by how angry you are getting without supporting your arguments whatsover just further backs my point
phoneguy610
Programmer
and 5000 users is nothing
talk to me when you have 25000 users
talk to me when you have 25000 users
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- #78
This from a 2011 article,
"Avaya currently has sold over 200,000 Avaya IP Offices phone systems and has 30 million users worldwide!"
That's from just 1 "TIN BOX" provider & only 1 platform of what they offer, so like I stated way back at the beginning of this thread the so called "TIN BOX" is here for a while.
"Avaya currently has sold over 200,000 Avaya IP Offices phone systems and has 30 million users worldwide!"
That's from just 1 "TIN BOX" provider & only 1 platform of what they offer, so like I stated way back at the beginning of this thread the so called "TIN BOX" is here for a while.
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- #79
itpphoneguy
Technical User
Hi Matt,
I think you called it there.
Like, what kind of a response did hostedtelephone expect anyway?
Like the vast majority of us here, job security isn't a worry. I don't get upset about that at all. I just become annoyed with a vendor who only knows how to sell on price and half truths.
hostedtelephone, what you may not be getting the message on is that no one here has bemoaned the advent of IP communications. That has been the operational backbone for the world for a long, long time. You are not capable of worrying anyone about hosted systems. What you are doing is making our workload heavier. We have to properly educate clients who may have bought into your message. It is unfortunate that our society has come to ignoring intangible realities until it bites them somehow. For those who do fall for your promise, well ... let's just say that most of us are really tired of cleaning up after every darn fad in the market. Remember the hell that redialers put many of us through? The promise of cheap calls. So now you want to copy Vonage, but for business use with slightly different hardware. We've seen DLS based lines before, about 10 years ago here, two of those giants toppled over. The end result was many ex-clients stuck without any service. Even if they signed up, there wasn't enough copper out there to support the amount of lines that were sold.
Who lost out? We sure didn't! Man, were we busy! In our neck 'o the woods, Bell didn't lose out either, god no! They were running copper and optical like demons, charging a high dollar for each and every single line delivered. Once again, it was everyone who paid the price for collective greed, even folks who knew better and didn't lose lines. The rates increased and it was everyone's neighbour who paid the price, each and every one of us.
If you take funds out of any system, it must balance again in some way. Short turn gain, long term pain.
Enough now, go play in your sandbox. I guess we'll be cleaning up after you too some day.
-Chris
I think you called it there.
Like, what kind of a response did hostedtelephone expect anyway?
Like the vast majority of us here, job security isn't a worry. I don't get upset about that at all. I just become annoyed with a vendor who only knows how to sell on price and half truths.
hostedtelephone, what you may not be getting the message on is that no one here has bemoaned the advent of IP communications. That has been the operational backbone for the world for a long, long time. You are not capable of worrying anyone about hosted systems. What you are doing is making our workload heavier. We have to properly educate clients who may have bought into your message. It is unfortunate that our society has come to ignoring intangible realities until it bites them somehow. For those who do fall for your promise, well ... let's just say that most of us are really tired of cleaning up after every darn fad in the market. Remember the hell that redialers put many of us through? The promise of cheap calls. So now you want to copy Vonage, but for business use with slightly different hardware. We've seen DLS based lines before, about 10 years ago here, two of those giants toppled over. The end result was many ex-clients stuck without any service. Even if they signed up, there wasn't enough copper out there to support the amount of lines that were sold.
Who lost out? We sure didn't! Man, were we busy! In our neck 'o the woods, Bell didn't lose out either, god no! They were running copper and optical like demons, charging a high dollar for each and every single line delivered. Once again, it was everyone who paid the price for collective greed, even folks who knew better and didn't lose lines. The rates increased and it was everyone's neighbour who paid the price, each and every one of us.
If you take funds out of any system, it must balance again in some way. Short turn gain, long term pain.
Enough now, go play in your sandbox. I guess we'll be cleaning up after you too some day.
-Chris
hairlessupportmonkey
IS-IT--Management
> Enough now, go play in your sandbox. I guess we'll be cleaning up after you too some day.
Madness is all of us here aren't against technology, its just the poor implementation of it. We are often cleaning up after poorly installed IP Offices, and poorly implemented hosted. We own half a hosted company and I wouldn't put their service into a call centre. Lack of trust in the implementation of it and call centre software don't make it viable.
A serviced office is ripe for hosted. Not a busy taxi company taking 5000+ calls a day.
ACSS - SME
General Geek
Madness is all of us here aren't against technology, its just the poor implementation of it. We are often cleaning up after poorly installed IP Offices, and poorly implemented hosted. We own half a hosted company and I wouldn't put their service into a call centre. Lack of trust in the implementation of it and call centre software don't make it viable.
A serviced office is ripe for hosted. Not a busy taxi company taking 5000+ calls a day.
ACSS - SME
General Geek
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