hostedtelephone
Programmer
we have just put our 5000 user on our hosted system and we are seing sales of pabx drop like a stone. do you think the days of a piece of tin numberd when its so easy to install and maintain on hosted???
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is the pabx dead 21
- Thread starter hostedtelephone
- Start date
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Here is 1 mans opinion that was just done Jan 0f 2012. Now I know he's just using the Xorcom PBX as his system but hey that's what he sells...
Hosted PBX Services Cost Analysis
versus
Xorcom Premise Based IP PBX
Hosted PBX Services Cost Analysis
versus
Xorcom Premise Based IP PBX
- Thread starter
- #22
hostedtelephone
Programmer
Thats just sales paperwork jazzed up to look like a white paper when you look into it properly the figures dont lie we can normally save a customer 10 - 15% over 5 years on cost
Nope we are not a dealer, we're an end user.
How much did all that cost? Actually not as much as your going to think.
However it gives ultimate flexibly and the hosted provider can't match or charge for every minor change. Bear in mind we can change 50 - 100 user accounts per week, and have to set up new dial plans, queues, ivrs, on weekly basis.
What about call charges? We get to pick and choose our carriers, and pay 0 for international call between branches, breaking out at local rate.
As for software updates well the issue we have is "cloud" solutions choose when they do it and what new features are rammed upon you. We choose when we apply updates.
As for cost savings, we were "forced" by people who bought into the cloudy crap for a fax to email solution and currently is running about 50% more expensive if we'd bought an in house solution with redundant back up.
An how about audio conferencing? We have in house solution that has paid for itself within 10 months compared to the cheapest hosted solution out there. So the next several years are effectivly cost free.
As for upgrade. We still have an Option81 that's about 20 years old still ticking along, hooked up to the IP network. It's going to go eventually, but it;s still going. Still these IP PBX's are not as solid are they? What's that, we've just replaced one that was 7 years old, no other reason than they we're moving site and seemed like a good idea to bring the server into our DC's isnstead of onsite.
Yes hosted is suitable for many, but don't spout utter crap saying it's the only way. That's sales talk and I've been in this business way to long to see right past that.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
How much did all that cost? Actually not as much as your going to think.
However it gives ultimate flexibly and the hosted provider can't match or charge for every minor change. Bear in mind we can change 50 - 100 user accounts per week, and have to set up new dial plans, queues, ivrs, on weekly basis.
What about call charges? We get to pick and choose our carriers, and pay 0 for international call between branches, breaking out at local rate.
As for software updates well the issue we have is "cloud" solutions choose when they do it and what new features are rammed upon you. We choose when we apply updates.
As for cost savings, we were "forced" by people who bought into the cloudy crap for a fax to email solution and currently is running about 50% more expensive if we'd bought an in house solution with redundant back up.
An how about audio conferencing? We have in house solution that has paid for itself within 10 months compared to the cheapest hosted solution out there. So the next several years are effectivly cost free.
As for upgrade. We still have an Option81 that's about 20 years old still ticking along, hooked up to the IP network. It's going to go eventually, but it;s still going. Still these IP PBX's are not as solid are they? What's that, we've just replaced one that was 7 years old, no other reason than they we're moving site and seemed like a good idea to bring the server into our DC's isnstead of onsite.
Yes hosted is suitable for many, but don't spout utter crap saying it's the only way. That's sales talk and I've been in this business way to long to see right past that.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
On the surface it does seem to be nice to have someone else monitor your phone switch and make upgrades and I suppose having automatic upgrades would be nice, but I would have a couple of concerns about that.
1.) Will the upgrades be done on a timely basis and at a time that is convenient for our hospital.
2.) What kind of technician will be monitoring our switch. Will it be a fully trained tech, or will it be someone who has been trained to call the next higher level of competence when an alarm is raised.
3.) Are you really going to bill me for all my moves, adds and changes.
4.) Nearly half of the phones here at this hospital are analog.
That means a packet switch in every wing on every floor. Do you really think they can approach the reliability of analog cards in a phone switch.
5.) If a packet switch goes down the wing is down. I don't believe that's the case with a wing served by many cards in an on site PABX.
By the way I don't have much heat at all in my switch room, but when I go into a packet switch closet serving POE phones I experience a great deal of heat.
Just my thoughts. Tell me where I'm wrong.
1.) Will the upgrades be done on a timely basis and at a time that is convenient for our hospital.
2.) What kind of technician will be monitoring our switch. Will it be a fully trained tech, or will it be someone who has been trained to call the next higher level of competence when an alarm is raised.
3.) Are you really going to bill me for all my moves, adds and changes.
4.) Nearly half of the phones here at this hospital are analog.
That means a packet switch in every wing on every floor. Do you really think they can approach the reliability of analog cards in a phone switch.
5.) If a packet switch goes down the wing is down. I don't believe that's the case with a wing served by many cards in an on site PABX.
By the way I don't have much heat at all in my switch room, but when I go into a packet switch closet serving POE phones I experience a great deal of heat.
Just my thoughts. Tell me where I'm wrong.
- Thread starter
- #25
hostedtelephone
Programmer
Yes hosted is suitable for many, but don't spout utter crap saying it's the only way. That's sales talk and I've been in this business way to long to see right past that.
How can you say you have been "in the bussiness" when you are a end user have you tryed hosted and all the features it gives you
How can you say you have been "in the bussiness" when you are a end user have you tryed hosted and all the features it gives you
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3
- #26
The following is from a site that mainly pushes Virtual/Hosted solutions and even they see the need for an in house system.
The hosted VoIP solution is typically best-suited for smaller businesses that do not have the in-house expertise to install or maintain on-premises IP PBX equipment.
But as a small business grows and becomes more established, the managers may come to a point where they are adding lines more frequently, trying to facilitate telecommuting and accommodate "road warriors", and perhaps even adding branch offices. There may come a point where that expansion means that it's time to reconsider hosted VoIP and install an IP PBX in-house.
To read the rest
Oh and as far as how can an end user know the business; apparently you don’t know some of the end-users. I’m talking enterprises where they are responsible for 50 or more sites & 20k handsets and up. It’s their business to know the business if you know what I mean.
Bottom line, I like most here fill that Hosted has it’s place but by know means is going to replace the PBX anytime soon if ever. Today’s Hosted is yesterday’s Centrex…….
The hosted VoIP solution is typically best-suited for smaller businesses that do not have the in-house expertise to install or maintain on-premises IP PBX equipment.
But as a small business grows and becomes more established, the managers may come to a point where they are adding lines more frequently, trying to facilitate telecommuting and accommodate "road warriors", and perhaps even adding branch offices. There may come a point where that expansion means that it's time to reconsider hosted VoIP and install an IP PBX in-house.
To read the rest
Oh and as far as how can an end user know the business; apparently you don’t know some of the end-users. I’m talking enterprises where they are responsible for 50 or more sites & 20k handsets and up. It’s their business to know the business if you know what I mean.
Bottom line, I like most here fill that Hosted has it’s place but by know means is going to replace the PBX anytime soon if ever. Today’s Hosted is yesterday’s Centrex…….
GordonKapesMZ4
Programmer
I've used 3 options in my lab, an IP PBX from Emetrotel, a BCM from Nortel, and direct hosted SIP with VOIP.MS and Nortel SIP phones.
So far the best option seems to be the IP PBX from Emetrotel, it has the most features and functions.
The BCM is very good too, but it's a shame it's discontinued.
The hosted Nortel 11xx and 12xx phones I've directly logged into VOIP.MS work great on my broadband connection, but I've tried setting it up on other's routers and networks and have run into problems with NAT and things that most of the service providers are not equipped or knowledgeable enough in VOIP to fix. I love the setup when the network cooperated.
So far the best option seems to be the IP PBX from Emetrotel, it has the most features and functions.
The BCM is very good too, but it's a shame it's discontinued.
The hosted Nortel 11xx and 12xx phones I've directly logged into VOIP.MS work great on my broadband connection, but I've tried setting it up on other's routers and networks and have run into problems with NAT and things that most of the service providers are not equipped or knowledgeable enough in VOIP to fix. I love the setup when the network cooperated.
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
I have 2,200 stations and I can't imagine going 'hosted', or strictly VoIP.
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1
- #29
How can you say you have been "in the bussiness" when you are a end user have you tryed hosted and all the features it gives you"
By end user, I am a sysadmin,not a reseller; not a support company; not anyone in a vested interest in making as much money as possible.
My primary aim is to give as possible a service to my "customers" i.e. co-workers as possible.
We have 3500 staff, 75% on in House VoIP systems.
Features? Here's house
Free international inter-branch calls - Check.
Free VM - Check
No cost to any changes we make - Check
Changes done EXACTLY when we want them, even if it's a public holiday.
Free Conference calls with up 120 in any conference - check
Free integration for audio calls into our VC systems - Check
Direct lines to our carriers i.e. in THEIR DC;'s - check
direct lines in our mobile (cell) provider - check
Desktop client - check
Web client - check
Remote home working - check
Free call recording (including call centre) - check
Call control from mobiles and landlines - check.
Do you want me to go on?
Oh and one last thing, what happens if the hosted solution goes belly up or decides it no longer want to do that line of business, then what? Nortel was a company with a multi-billion turn over and seen went crashing down. Did our phones suddenly stop working, well going by the ancient 81 still chugging along, I'd say now.
As stated hosted has it's place.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
By end user, I am a sysadmin,not a reseller; not a support company; not anyone in a vested interest in making as much money as possible.
My primary aim is to give as possible a service to my "customers" i.e. co-workers as possible.
We have 3500 staff, 75% on in House VoIP systems.
Features? Here's house
Free international inter-branch calls - Check.
Free VM - Check
No cost to any changes we make - Check
Changes done EXACTLY when we want them, even if it's a public holiday.
Free Conference calls with up 120 in any conference - check
Free integration for audio calls into our VC systems - Check
Direct lines to our carriers i.e. in THEIR DC;'s - check
direct lines in our mobile (cell) provider - check
Desktop client - check
Web client - check
Remote home working - check
Free call recording (including call centre) - check
Call control from mobiles and landlines - check.
Do you want me to go on?
Oh and one last thing, what happens if the hosted solution goes belly up or decides it no longer want to do that line of business, then what? Nortel was a company with a multi-billion turn over and seen went crashing down. Did our phones suddenly stop working, well going by the ancient 81 still chugging along, I'd say now.
As stated hosted has it's place.
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
- Thread starter
- #30
hostedtelephone
Programmer
Features? Here's house
Free international inter-branch calls - Check. YEP
Free VM - Check YEP
No cost to any changes we make - Check YEP WE DONT CHARGE
Changes done EXACTLY when we want them, even if it's a public holiday. YEP CUSTOMER HAS FULL ACCSESS
Free Conference calls with up 120 in any conference - check YEP FULL MEET ME CONF FREE
Free integration for audio calls into our VC systems - Check YEP
Direct lines to our carriers i.e. in THEIR DC;'s - check YEP
direct lines in our mobile (cell) provider - check WE OFFER FREE CALLS TO AND FROM OUR MOBILE
Desktop client - check YEP
Web client - check YEP
Remote home working - check YEP NO VPN OR ROUTING REQ
Free call recording (including call centre) - check YEP WITH NO INITIAL OUTAY
Call control from mobiles and landlines - check. YEP
NO MASSIVE INITIAL COST YEP
BETTER REDUNDENCY YEP
FULL DISASTER RECOVERY YEP
SYSTEM HOUSED IN MAIN DATA CENTER IN LONDON WITH ALL MAJOR CARRIERS YEP
PUT A PHONE IN ANY COUNTRY WITOUT VPN YEP
SOFTPHONE FOR LAPTOP YEP
DO I NEED TO GO ON
Free international inter-branch calls - Check. YEP
Free VM - Check YEP
No cost to any changes we make - Check YEP WE DONT CHARGE
Changes done EXACTLY when we want them, even if it's a public holiday. YEP CUSTOMER HAS FULL ACCSESS
Free Conference calls with up 120 in any conference - check YEP FULL MEET ME CONF FREE
Free integration for audio calls into our VC systems - Check YEP
Direct lines to our carriers i.e. in THEIR DC;'s - check YEP
direct lines in our mobile (cell) provider - check WE OFFER FREE CALLS TO AND FROM OUR MOBILE
Desktop client - check YEP
Web client - check YEP
Remote home working - check YEP NO VPN OR ROUTING REQ
Free call recording (including call centre) - check YEP WITH NO INITIAL OUTAY
Call control from mobiles and landlines - check. YEP
NO MASSIVE INITIAL COST YEP
BETTER REDUNDENCY YEP
FULL DISASTER RECOVERY YEP
SYSTEM HOUSED IN MAIN DATA CENTER IN LONDON WITH ALL MAJOR CARRIERS YEP
PUT A PHONE IN ANY COUNTRY WITOUT VPN YEP
SOFTPHONE FOR LAPTOP YEP
DO I NEED TO GO ON
In the United States, it has been estimated that around 500,000 SMBs currently use a hosted PBX service, representing an $800 million market. In a U.S. telecom service business of about $336 billion in annual revenue, hosted IP telephony represents about two-tenths of one percent of total industry revenue.
Looks like it might take a while....
Looks like it might take a while....
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
You guys make a pretty good case for hosted.
One point I should make. When Nortel sold out, nothing changed.
Of course that equipment, at some point, will no longer be upgraded (most of it still is upgrade-able).
Now tell me what happens when the company who owns the hosted system goes belly up.
I suspect, in a matter of minutes the power will be shut off and another business will move into the building and the customers are left high and dry.
Unlikely scenario??? Probably, but it does make me wonder.
One point I should make. When Nortel sold out, nothing changed.
Of course that equipment, at some point, will no longer be upgraded (most of it still is upgrade-able).
Now tell me what happens when the company who owns the hosted system goes belly up.
I suspect, in a matter of minutes the power will be shut off and another business will move into the building and the customers are left high and dry.
Unlikely scenario??? Probably, but it does make me wonder.
BoskerTheArkite
Technical User
In the good ol' USA I'd say you're right.
But these guys do have a few good point, for the right niche and with the right supplier. One would sure want to do his due diligence.
It kind of seems like maybe Great Britian has Government owned telephones, but I'm not sure.
That would eliminate that last problem I mentioned, and create a whole bunch more.
But these guys do have a few good point, for the right niche and with the right supplier. One would sure want to do his due diligence.
It kind of seems like maybe Great Britian has Government owned telephones, but I'm not sure.
That would eliminate that last problem I mentioned, and create a whole bunch more.
hairlessupportmonkey
IS-IT--Management
BoskerTheArkite said:
Nope - all privately owned, but govt regulated.
ACSS - SME
General Geek
eddiebullman
Programmer
Hi
All i will say about hosted systems is high bandwidth needed and that costs money
All i will say about hosted systems is high bandwidth needed and that costs money
- Thread starter
- #37
hostedtelephone
Programmer
why high badwith?? using g711 its only 100k per call and you only need that when you are on a call. the conection bandwith for updates on the phone is only a few k so on a standard adsl for only £20 or 30 a month you can have approx 8 concurent phone calls and as many phones as you like. try getting 8 bt analog lines or isdn for £30 a month.
why high badwith?? using g711 its only 100k per call"
Actually closer to 135kbs per call (unless you are not using duplex or don't use RTCP).
Doesn't sound much, but multiple by 100 or a 1000 simultaneous calls and soon stack up.
Then of course you will need a decent QoS link to your provider (surely you not going to rely on a congested, unmanaged Internet link are you?)
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
Actually closer to 135kbs per call (unless you are not using duplex or don't use RTCP).
Doesn't sound much, but multiple by 100 or a 1000 simultaneous calls and soon stack up.
Then of course you will need a decent QoS link to your provider (surely you not going to rely on a congested, unmanaged Internet link are you?)
Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
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2
- #39
- Thread starter
- #40
hostedtelephone
Programmer
why high badwith?? using g711 its only 100k per call"
Actually closer to 135kbs per call (unless you are not using duplex or don't use RTCP).
Doesn't sound much, but multiple by 100 or a 1000 simultaneous calls and soon stack up.
Then of course you will need a decent QoS link to your provider (surely you not going to rely on a congested, unmanaged Internet link are you?)
Where are you getting the 135k from?? at the max its about 100k.all the links we use are qos as our providor has a direct connect into our data center
Actually closer to 135kbs per call (unless you are not using duplex or don't use RTCP).
Doesn't sound much, but multiple by 100 or a 1000 simultaneous calls and soon stack up.
Then of course you will need a decent QoS link to your provider (surely you not going to rely on a congested, unmanaged Internet link are you?)
Where are you getting the 135k from?? at the max its about 100k.all the links we use are qos as our providor has a direct connect into our data center
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