Is the american dream still possible? 5

[Polu]

Hello.

I am from Spain. I am a Computer Engineer (5 years at University). I have worked for three years as a consultant in a major company all over Europe and Latin-America. It was a challenging and fulfilling job but too much overtime (+80 hours per week) and too much political crap. I designed systems handling millions of transactions per day and I was very proud of it.

After that I worked for two years in a Madrid based, english speaking, "one product company". I developed the product from version X to version X+N. It was a very stable company, I was well payed and I worked less than 35 hours per week. After some time I was sick to death because my job was not challenging at all. Once you learn the product, there is nothing else to challenge you, it is just a very repetive work.

Now I am working in the IT department of an english speaking, non-IT company. They planned to develop a big internal tool and hired some developers including me but now they have abandoned the project and I am doing support. I don't like support. I don't like it at all. A user called me in despair because "all her icons were missing". She tried to kill excel.exe and killed explorer.exe. This is the kind of things I am doing now

In the meantime, two years ago I started a PhD related to BioInformatics and Biotech. I will need at least another two years to complete it.

In the end, I have worked at a consulting firm, at a product company and at a non-IT company and none of these jobs have been good enough for me in the long term.

I feel I am at the top of spanish IT jobs. I don't think I am going to find a better job or to make more money in Spain. It's not gonna happen, my salary is more than double the usual for a developer in Spain. This is not a first class country as the U.S., UK or Germany so there are no better jobs, spanish job market for geeks is what it is.

At this point, I have the first big question: It is me? Do I expect unreasonable things from a job? Am I unable to keep a job? Will I be always tired and bored of any job after two years? Will I be hopping from job to job every two years for the rest of my life?

I don't give up, and I am still looking for the perfect job, but I have started to search outside Spain. In London or Amsterdam there are very compelling jobs. As a E.U. citizen I don't need any kind of migration paperwork nor visa or "green card" to work there. No doubt these jobs will be a big step ahead for me but, still, I think after may be five years and two or thee jobs in London I will find myself in the same place I am now: wishing a better job that is not availabe in Europe.

So I think I could skip the London experience and go straigh to U.S., looking for the american dream, looking for a exciting job and, may be three or four years later the opportunity to start my own company and (hopefully) conquer the world

At the U.S. I know I will be a H1B worker. My wife will move with me but we will be an ocean apart from our friends and family. London is just a two hours and a half trip from Madrid so we could be back for a weekend every now and then.

I have never been in the US so I don't know how it is for real but, acording to CNN, Hollywood and the Internet I feel a bit scared about my legal status and rigths over there as a foreigner.

So now my second and more importan question: Is the american dream still possible? Will I find exciting jobs there? Will I have the opportunity to reshape the world with my technology?

Please, any advive will be welcomed. Thank you all.

 

[Pampers]

AlexCuse (Programmer) 20 Nov 06 16:16
However, I know people who have moved here (legally) from Great Britain, and they said that the opportunity here for them is much greater than it was at home. There may be greater income equality there, but that does not necessarily equate to opportunity.

Sure you can have a succesfull career in the States coming from abroad, also depending of the economical situation for that moment in the two countries and your qualifications. But I'm not sure this qualifies as realising/living the American Dream (from paper delivery boy to media tycoon).

Pampers
Keeping it simple can be complicated

 

[AlexCuse]

You're right pampers, I think the American Dream might be a little watered down these days. I don't think the current 'American Dream' (I would guess it is something like work a while, build on your skills, buy a home, and eventually go into business for yourself) is anything to shake a stick at though. Especially for people who don't want to be a media tycoon ;-)

A wise man once said
"The only thing normal about database guys is their tables".

 

[flapeyre]

USA is not a first class society, like Norway, Germany, Brittain, Sweden, Finland, Holland, Switserland... If you travel through the USA you will see that very clear. To get a complete picture, visit New Orleans on a day/night trip. I would suggest you go to the nothern european country's to extend your career, and visit USA on holidays, because it is beautifull!!

I was born in New Orleans, and I love the city (although not its Byzantine bureaucracy). I disagree, though. In no way will visiting any one city in the United States, New Orleans included, give anyone a "complete picture" of the United States, any more than having a cut Christmas tree in your living room will give you a complete picture of a forest.

"First-class" society"? Who is? And why are they first class?

The difference here is you can be a success if you work hard enough. You have to do more than just dream at it.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[mmorancbt]

I think people are confused with what the American Dream is. If they believe it is having a lot or even having "enough" - they are mistaken.

If, on the other hand, they believe it is the opportunity to create and/or produce and generate rewards based on that creation/production - the ability to risk, fail, risk again, and perhaps succeed, then, they are well on their way.

The American Dream is not a financial state. It is the recognition of opportunity to pursue opportunity.

FYI: Can you realize this elsewhere - of course. But, in the USA, this "Dream" was the fabric & product of many, many, many people who immigrated here to escape persecution and truly limited opportunity.

Can things be better - you bet! That is true everywhere. Let's work on it.

FYI: I won't really enter the "immigration" discussion above - it is, for me, mostly a smokescreen issue on either side. Immigration is great for the country. Reasonable limits are as well.

The real bane for America will be a disregard for the ideal that says, "come here for opportunity". If it becomes, come here for state provided care, big trouble.

And before I get the accusations of hawkishness, I believe in reformed - but available - social security and governmental institutions for mentally ill - rather then prison - which is counterintuitive and other social liberal ideas.

There is a reasonable balance.

In any case, if you do not believe the American Dream exist, it is likely you will find that to be the case. If you believe it exist, you will find that you are right as well. It is your choice and your burden.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[kHz]

The American Dream is...

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

All are still available; what one chooses to do is up to them.

 

[Pampers]

I was born in New Orleans, and I love the city (although not its Byzantine bureaucracy). I disagree, though. In no way will visiting any one city in the United States, New Orleans included, give anyone a "complete picture" of the United States, any more than having a cut Christmas tree in your living room will give you a complete picture of a forest.

...but a cut tree in your house sure gives you a good idea of a what a dying forest may look like (after a couple of weeks). Just like New Orleans aftermath gives a good insight that it is not part of a first class society - it was not only a natural disaster, it was - and still is - a social and socio-economic disaster. And maybe it was this event wherein USA lost its credability of being a first class society.

Just an example. In 1953 the Netherlands had a major disaster when the dikes broke and the lowlands flooded. Hundreds of people were killed. The response, even in 1953, couldn't be compared to that of New Orleans. It resulted, among other things, in the most modern waterworks of the world and billions of dollars invested to prevent it from happening again.

I had a close look at the restorations works at the New Orleans dikes just recently.... Completely insufficient. The USA should be ashamed of themselves. A disaster like this could strike again, at anytime for New Orleans. The black and white folk are right in not coming back to the city and their old neighbourhoods. It is unsave, 3th class society like.



Pampers
Keeping it simple can be complicated

 

[flapeyre]

Did I not just say that New Orleans is not representative of America? (And I say this as someone who was born there and lived the first 31 years of my life there).

Several thousand people died as a result of Katrina in the New Orleans area. That number should have been zero. Most of the fatalities were people who stayed behind and ignored the mandatory evacuation order. Why? Not because they were stupid. It was because they loved their city and did not want to leave.

The government at all levels had a pretty pitiful response to the disaster. (In fairness, no natural disaster on this scale has ever happened in the US before). Things are what they are. We learned from them. We will come back, stronger than ever.

More to the point, it will not be the government that rebuilds New Orleans. It will be the people of New Orleans.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[aarenot]

the situation with new orleans is the shame of new orleans local government. they had decades, and hundreds of millions of federal provided dollars sitting in the bank to upgrade the levees for over 5 years, they knew they may have to do mass evacs, they knew they had 100 buses sitting doing nothing until they were flooded. they knew they were going to get hit again like they had before, just not when. they gambled with peoples lives, they lost and they are now paying the bet off in their graveyards. too bad the local agencies who had these responsibilities to safe guard shirked their responsibilities. that is where the buck stops.
the local government in new orleans should never again be trusted with this charge.
even if they had used the 100 million for evacuation planning, and resources, there would not have been a single human being left in new orleans. do the math, 30,000 people/ 60 per bus=500 buses to get them out in one trip. the 100 buses the city lost to flooding in a parking lot could have done it in 5 trips. even at 5000 dollars per bus it is only 2.5 million dollars. easy thing to get contracted with busing companies, if you do minimal planning for any city of new orleans size. negligence, negligence, negligence.
according to the mayors statements on national tv they even had to consult their city attorneys to determine if they had the authority to order an evacuation. that shows they had no plan, no preparation, and no concern. that local government should be charged with manslaughter. cities in wisconsin spend more than that, and make more preparations for snow removal than this would have taken, and do it very year.

 

[IT4EVR]

Earlier in the post someone mentioned tech centers but neglected Atlanta, New York City, Chicago and Washington DC -- all of which have more tech jobs than RDU. I would consider Atlanta to be the tech hub of the south, Chicago of the midwest, Austin of the southwest and Washington DC of the east coast.

 

[aarenot]

madison wi has a large tech sector. many of my customers are worlwide cutting edge tech companies. from software sonic foundry, to prairie technologies laser microscopy, two photon, and confocal microscopes, many software support services companies. we no longer have the kray, the supercomputer company here though.

a few wisconsin inventions,

les paul=electric guitar

James Thomson, the first scientist to isolate and culture human embryonic stem cells.

it is consider in the top 5 for biomed tech in the world.

we may not be seen as a leader in tech, but that is the reality. the university of wisconsin has much to do with this, as well as being a nice place to live for those who can afford to choose where they want to reside.

 

[kHz]

The Mayor of New Orleans was incompetent. The city had nothing staged at the Superdome where they told people to go for help. That is local failure, not national. Florida had 3 hurricanes the year before and for the most part handled everything without problems. FEMA worked there. So why not in LA and New Orleans? It was local and state government. The governor was a joke too.

And the death toll was not thousands, but 1836. Too many, yes. But the city could have evacuated thousands before. The city knew thousands didn't have transportation.

New Orleans and Louisiana officials are notoriously corrupt. And apparently ineffective and incompetent too.

Look at the death tolls of other worldwide disasters:
2005 Pakistan earthquake: 73,276
2003 Bam, Iran earthquake: 30,000+
1991 Bangladesh cyclone: 138,000
2004 Indonesia tsunami: ranges 169,070 to 178,118; missing 128,426
2003 European heat wave: 35,000
1931 Yangtze-Kiang River, China flood: 3.7 million
1959 North China flood: 2 million
1877 Huang He River N. China flood: 900,000
1939 Honan province China flood: 500,000
1970 Ganges Delta isles, Bangladesh cyclone: 300,000-500,000
1976 Tanashan, China earthquake: 255,000-655,000
1850 Sichuan, China earthquake: 300,000
1927 Xining, China earthquake: 200,000
1920 Gansu, China earthquake: 200,000
1923 Great Tokyo Fire Japan: 142,000
1935 Changiyang River, China flood: 142,000
1948 Turkmenistan, Russa earthquake: 110,000
1911 Yangtze River, China flood: 100,000
1815 Tambora Sumbawa, Indonesia volcano: 92,000
1908 Messina, Italy earthquake: 83,000
1932 Gansu, China earthquake: 70,000

The US has had other natual disasters too, heat has killed in the 1995 heat wave in Chicago (525), the Great Chicago Fire (250), 1906 San Francisco earthquake (officially ~700 but believed to be 3,000+), but the are nowhere near the numbers cited above. Those are abysmal.

 

[aarenot]

the federal government has no business redeveloping new orleans with the cost involved. that is a local bill to pay, especially since it would not be needed were it not for incompitence in the first place locally. the fed should require flood insurance for all buildings with a loan, or tenants for housing. businesses should be required to have flood insurance to qualify for any federal contracts, aid, or disaster assistance if below sea level, or in a 100 year flood plain. the usa is not running out of land above sea level, so there is no need to risk the lives, security, costs, and financial impact of investment under the sea.
if they want to do it locally, that is there business, and their bill to pay. they need to have their own local emrgency management in that case, or prepay for federal fema coverage in full. this is ridiculous to rebuild a city under the sea, when a few miles away, there is land above sea level. the north provides for snow removal yearly, to the tune of billions of dollars. it is time the other areas provide some funding for their own inherant risks, just like the north does. when was the last time the fed declared a state a disaster because of a blizzard, and paid the bill to dig out.

 

[Pampers]

flapeyre (Programmer) 21 Nov 06 22:29
Did I not just say that New Orleans is not representative of America? (And I say this as someone who was born there and lived the first 31 years of my life there).

Ok, I get your point. Clearly there are other states where things a properly organised. Glad to hear.

But what remains is the fact that New Orleans was not corrected and still not is - by the central gouvernment or whatever/whoever - on how it tries to protect its citizens from natural disasters. I think in that respect the USA as a country fails, fails to protect its citizens.

So the people fled to saver States, creating the situations that safety is something you can shop for aswell. I don't think that that is a situation you want to uphold for too long a time. Protection from natural disaster should be first class and to the latest standards, in all states.



Pampers
Keeping it simple can be complicated

 

[Pampers]

aarenot
this is ridiculous to rebuild a city under the sea, when a few miles away, there is land above sea level....

You are right. And I don't think there will be much rebuilding going on in the (near) future either.

Pampers
Keeping it simple can be complicated

 

[aarenot]

pampers,
i know that rebuilding in the area has begun, as i have worked with i.d.e.s. which is doing rebuilding in la, and ms in the katrina area. i have not been down there, but have worked in attaining funds, and buidling materials from local businesses for volunteer teams that rebuild homes for those that have been hit hard, and have no ability to rebuild themselves. about 40 men and women ages 18-68 from my local church have gone down for one to two weeks with i.d.e.s. to do construction work for the needy. the volunteers pay their own transportation, sleep in a church, eat at a church, do their laundry at a church, and bring their own tools. they do get a t-shirt to keep though.
i am not promoting international disaster emergency services [ides] if [dot] is what you think i am doing for this [org] , they are just one of many good organizations helping their distant neighbors.

 

[IT4EVR]

Since this is a tech forum, we may also want to get back on topic...

 

[flapeyre]

this is ridiculous to rebuild a city under the sea, when a few miles away, there is land above sea level

When New Orleans was settled it was built on the highest ground in the area. Note that the French Quarter did not flood after the levees broke post-Katrina.

Does anybody think that San Francisco should not have been rebuilt after the 1906 earthquake? Or did they abandon Miami after Hurricane Andrew? Well, that city is till there, 100 years later. The entire state of California survives, even prospers, despite its natural tendency to shake and burn. And so will New Orleans.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[eyetry]

Define 'American Dream'. In my book it isn't just about money. There are no guarantees. The dream is about having the chance to do something with your life or become someone better.

People in Minnesota just elected a Muslim Senator. A female from California is likely to become speaker of the house. Who knows we may soon have a female president.

Sorry folks but the dream is alive and well in the USA. It’s there for the taking. If you want to live in a socialized world move to the EU.

I'm not wealthy. I've been without a job. I've struggled to make ends meet. People are making it here every day. Every day someone overcomes adversity and struggles up the ladder and makes it. It isn't easy but they do it. Every day people fail at it. The problem is when people stop trying.

You don't do it by working 40-hour weeks. You don't do it by job sharing as they do in many parts of the EU.

By the way, I’ve traveled in the EU and loved it. Most of the people are gracious and friendly. But I’ve seen poverty there to. People are more likely to be limited by their station in life. Taxes are higher. Opportunities are fewer.

It ain’t perfect anywhere. Just keep on trying. If your neighbor is giving 100% give 150%. Use help offered as a hand hold and hold someone else’s hand. But don’t hold on to long. Let the jerks go by because there is such a thing as karma and it does catch up with us all.

 

[eyetry]

Polu,

if you think you might have an opportunity in the US look at it. If you aren't sure there are some great firms that can help you make needed connections.

There are also EU companies that have some fantastic opportunities. My firm has strong ties with an Irish consulting firm. Their developers make comparable wages to ours. They work regular hours and some are actually fulfilled A few travel here and other parts of the USA.

Several of my superiors are from South Africa, India and other locals. It is hard for them at times. Not just because they are away from their families. It can be hard to make new friends and develop new networks of people if you aren't outgoing.

Don't focus on New York, CA or even Chicago. Even though people in those areas think the rest of the US is fly over land, it isn't. Its really the bread and butter of the nation. I'm always amused by their arrogance and ignorance.

One of the best industries to look at right now is health care. There are loads of opportunities. We had a local company looking for over 250 tech people. Our post WWII babies are nearing retirement and the need to provide for them is growing.

Keep in mind though…… You may not like the food.

 

[aarenot]

i would suggest looking in a midwest state near a city with a world class univesity. i am from wisconsin, and the unovesity has made madison a culturaly diverse city, as well as a world class technology state. med tech is very strong in wisconsin, and many of the fly over states as eyetry says have good tech workplaces.

i have also traveled and worked around the usa, and in the midwest many areas you still do not need to lock your doors day, or night. that is not true in ny, ca, chicago, and the world of tech allows remote work more, and more frequently now.