Any Good Opinions of Windows 8 To Date? 15

[kjv1611]

So far, from my perspective, I think Windows 8 is looking to make Windows ME even look good in retrospect. A month or two ago, I installed the consumer preview in a virtual machine, and had it running - did take a little tweaking but not much. However, once I had it running, it did look like I was trying to control a giant phone with a mouse - forget the keyboard at all - and frankly, what I clicked just didn't make sense. To me, nothing felt intuitive at all. I could pick up any version of Ubuntu Linux I've seen to date, and though I'm not as familiar, at least it mostly feels intuitive, even the latest one I've tried where they try to go somewhat Mac-ish. I suppose Microsoft has decided to not try to copy the Mac anymore on their interface, but rather just make a big dumb smartphone. Maybe it should now be labeled Windows Smart-top.

Any good experience so far? Any reason to try it again? I only gave it 10, maybe 15, minutes of my time.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[audiopro]

That is an interesting perspective from someone who clearly knows his stuff and is an enlightening opinion about WIN8.1 too.

I have spent quite a lot of time defending my corner, on the Windows Community Forum against users who clearly do no work at all on their computers, yet accuse me of bleating for no reason.

I can only comment about the OS as a user not a technician, as I just expect my computer to work when I switch it on.

Unfortunately for us poor end users, there doesn't appear to be a viable alternative to Windows at the moment. Yes, I know there are other OS's out there but as all of my customers use Windows, I have to use what is compatible with them. If MS carry on down this route, thy are going to end up with an OS which is simply not suitable for a work environment and an alternative will have to be found.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[pjw001]

I just expect my computer to work when I switch it on".

Well said audiopro. If I buy a new pencil I don't expect to have to figure out how to use it. I want it to work just like the last one. Hopefully it will last longer and the lead won't break, but I expect it to be basically much the same.

As has been said more than once in this thread, if MS continue in this way people will have to find a more stable and consistent platform to run their applications on. Companies don't expect to have to spend money retraining their staff just because their old computer has died.

 

[flyboytim]

I just expect my computer to work when I switch it on."

It would, if you just switch off using the power button, instead of looking for a shutdown/reset/logoff button somewhere in the GUI to "shut down your computer properly" as we have been told to do repeatedly for years, and we have also been berated for switching Windows off when it froze into immobility, and there was no alternative but to switch it off with the power button.

Windows 8 should take you into a state of hybrid sleep - no power in use, but with a fast start that loads your system from your hibernation file, so you take up where you had left off. Tablets and mobile phones do not require you to properly shut down the system - just power off.

If it doesn't behave in this way, then there are settings in the control panel, power settings to enable this.
.

 

[1DMF]

Windows 8 should take you into a state of hybrid sleep - no power in use, but with a fast start that loads your system from your hibernation file, so you take up where you had left off. Tablets and mobile phones do not require you to properly shut down the system - just power off.

If it doesn't behave in this way, then there are settings in the control panel, power settings to enable this.

Huh? Motherboards consume power regardless of the computer being switched off or not, the only way to power off a computer so it doesn't consumer any power is to unplug it from the mains or switch it off at the PSU (if it has an on/off switch).

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[minicompbx]

I just installed 8.1 and let me tell you, the start button on desktop is not like in Windows 7. It's just a button that let you go back to Start page (like if you were pressing windows icon on your keyboard when you are in desktop) I thought the Start button will be like in Windows 7 but I was wrong and feel so upset.

As IT guy, I get to used to it in few days and learn new system easily.. but for those peoples who do not know that much or have difficult to learning new technology, it will be really hard for them.

In my opinion, maybe I am the only one but I think Microsoft does not want to change their product as consumer wants.... instead they expect that consumer have to change to use their every new product.



Learning is not enough, you have to apply it...

 

[audiopro]

I don't really think it is about anyone's ability with computers, it is down to changing the way something has fundamentally worked well for decades, in favour of something which is nowhere near as intuitive.

Microsoft would like to believe they speak for everyone when it comes to what the consumer wants but that is an assumption that could easily come back to bite them in the future. They (Microsoft) have had a monopoly on desktop software for far too long and have simply stopped implementing worthwhile improvements, some serious competition would quickly despatch their latest efforts to the historic scrap heap.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[kjv1611]

I think the problem on competition is that developers develop for MS Windows, b/c it's what's on the majority of desktops/laptops. And of course, why wouldn't they? You follow the numbers if you are wanting to get paid for your work, generally.

But with all the smartphone and tablet stuff now, maybe that'll be enough to start swaying things a bit to wake up folks at MS.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[1DMF]

I have just had my first experience with Windows 8.1 and the so called 'fixed start menu problem'.

M$ are a complete and utter joke if they think that's a resolution. All the stupid windows logo does is take you back to the metro screen, the one thing we are trying to steer clear of as a desktop user.

Some friends have just bought an iPad instead of the new Nokia Lumina 2520, because it comes with Windows 8.


"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[1DMF]

I've just found out while trying to update one of our Windows 8 laptops to IE11, that M$ won't let a windows 8 machine install IE11 unless you install Windows 8.1 first.

Disgraceful!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>the new Nokia Lumina 2520, because it comes with Windows 8
To be accurate, it comes with Windows RT 8.1

Now, frankly RT - which only has the Modern interface, and no 'classic' desktop - doesn't make much sense on a desktop - but it does make sense on a tablet with a touch screen (of course RT is somewhat limited in the compatibility stakes, running only RT applications and none of your old Windows apps). But avoiding tablets that run Windows 8.1 (or 8) because you've heard stories about how it doesn't really work on a desktop is probably bit of an overreaction.

>the so called 'fixed start menu problem'.
Well quite (although right-clicking brings up something vaguely familiar ...). To be fair, though, Microsoft only said they were bringing back a start button. They (very carefully) never claimed that it would provide the same functionality as the classic start button, and some observers (such as myself ) commented prior to release that they very much doubted that Microsoft would reinstate a proper start button a) because to do so would be to admit in public that they had made a really, really bad decision and b) because of said caginess regarding the functionality

Let's wait for Windows Threshold

>trying to update one of our Windows 8 laptops to IE11, that M$ won't let a windows 8 machine install IE11 unless you install Windows 8.1 first.
Um ... well, yes. IE11 was/is an 8.1 only app (OK, yes, they latterly released a version for Windows 7). Indeed, it ships as part of 8.1 (so installing 8.1 would give you IE11, you wouldn't need any further uopgrade). Microsoft have never kept that fact hidden. Not sure why that is disgraceful. Presumably you thought IE9 was also disgraceful.

 

[1DMF]

Now, frankly RT - which only has the Modern interface, and no 'classic' desktop - doesn't make much sense on a desktop - but it does make sense on a tablet with a touch screen (of course RT is somewhat limited in the compatibility stakes, running only RT applications and none of your old Windows apps). But avoiding tablets that run Windows 8.1 (or 8) because you've heard stories about how it doesn't really work on a desktop is probably bit of an overreaction.

No it wasn't just because of the awful metro, but the fact is isn't compatible with anything, so what's the point. Though personally yes I will avoid anything Windows 8 because of the fiasco of Windows 8 on desktops, they have destroyed my faith in M$ and anything with an M$ operating system, I don't care what version it is now. If they had kept developing a decent desktop OS, while separately developing a tablet OS to take on the tablet market, I would have probably embraced it and given M$ a fair go, instead, I'm now turned off of M$ altogether, and at home the new development rig I just built is running Linux Mint 12.04 KDE, and am very happy indeed, if I can achieve what I want on another OS, I'll choose that before I look at M$ again, of course YMMV.

Microsoft have never kept that fact hidden. Not sure why that is disgraceful

Because I want IE11 (as I have on windows 7), but I don't want Win 8.1, I'm just waiting for the 8.1 update to finalise to see if I can still replace it with the start menu I've been running under Windows 8.

The problem I have is a web app is misbehaving from what now appears to be IE11 on Windows 8.1 problem, as IE11 on Windows 7 runs fine!

M$ didn't have to force 8.1 on people to run IE11, it was a deliberate choice, one I'm not happy with.







"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[flapeyre]

If it's IE11 and a Windows 7-style Start button, then upgrade to 8.1 and download something like Start8. You get your Start button functionality back, and the Metro UI to boot (or not to boot, as you prefer).

Best five bucks I ever spent.

-- Francis
Francisus ego, sed non sum papa.

 

[1DMF]

I'm already running IOBit Start Menu 8 ;-)

That's why I'm not interested in 8.1 and is peeing me off having to install it to get IE11.

8.1 has taken nearly 3 hours to install, which is another annoyance, especially as it's for something I don't want.

Now 8.1 has installed it's lost the internet and refuses to reconnect, but I was on the internet that's how I downloaded and installed 8.1, it won't recognise the user that was originally set up and is trying to force me to create one with an MS account I don't have not want...aaggghhhh!!!!!!!!!

I then find you have to choose create a new account and at the bottom you can choose use my existing account.. Now it's installing crap from the app store, what the hell, this is diabolical!

Mike -> The other reason I and others don't want Win8 is it's ugly, flat, boring and looks like 1980's Windows V2.. and who wants that?

It hasn't been hip to be square since Huey Lewis and the News, and that was the 80's too ;-)

How you can defend anything Win 8 is beyond me, it's a bigger pile of poo than dino droppings!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[flapeyre]

How you can defend anything Win 8 is beyond me, it's a bigger pile of poo than dino droppings!

Not defending Micro$oft, or Win 8.x, but they are the 500 pound gorilla - and they can sleep wherever they wish. I, therefore, focus on solving the issues as it relates to my user experience, rather than complain. By blood pressure is lower as a result.

The Microsoft account issue is a non-issue for me, since I have one anyway (and if one purchases the upgrade online, one already has an MS account). I will admit that upgrading was somewhat of a chore, but that only has to be done once. I refuse to use Outlook.com (née Hotmail), but Windows Mal does play nice with Gmail (although it's way faster on Chrome, which I use pretty much exclusively instead of IE, which is still way more clunky).



-- Francis
Francisus ego, sed non sum papa.

 

[1DMF]

That wasn't the end of it, it completely lost the wireless, and as Windows 8 doesn't have 'Manager Wireless Connections', it's a nightmare. I kept telling Win8 to forget the Wifi it remembered because it refused to connect, but wouldn't let me create a new one because it already existed.

3 times I told it to forget the network, but it kept coming back, so in the end I rebooted the machine and for some bizarre reason, when the machine rebooted the wireless adapter had then been disabled. I re-enabled it in 'Network and Sharing Center' and it then auto connected to the wireless I told it to forget 3 times and had refused to connect to, this sucks!

The only saving grace is it hasn't removed the IOBit Start Menu 8, so at least I don't need to re-install that!





"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[HughLerwill]

My t8 on 8.
After using Win 7 ultimate on a Dell M4500 laptop for 3 years I got a new Dell T3600 desktop in October, it came with Win 7 64b professional preinstalled on a 500 MB HD plus another 500 MB HD for data. I bought a OEM copy of Win 8 pro 64b and put it on the second HD and then set the two OS's up in a dual boot configuration with boot to Win 7 as the default. I had considered putting Win 8 on a VM within the Win 7 installation but on reflection I am pleased I decide to dual boot. It's a mouse and keyboard setup with a nice but non-ts monitor.
To begin with I hated Win 8 but I installed 'Classic Start Menu' (it's free) and my problems were behind me; once I had a Start menu I could find everything again and just about everything I can think about is still there slightly different or better. Upgrade to 8.1 was straight-forward. Re the Metro interface: It is really annoying at first but it has it has it's moments like the Music tile which gets you into Xbox Music which is great even in free/ non subscription mode(although I suspect it is too good to be this good for long); much better than Spotify even in the old days. Booting into Win 8/ 8.1 is much quicker.
I'm a VB6 developer and all my tools and apps are working fine, albeit they have been migrated through every Windows OS since win 95 except the Millenium edition. Migration from Win 7 to 8/ 8.1 has been much less trouble than the jumps from XP to Vista and Vista to 7.
Given the above I am now booting into Win 8.1 by default and I am happy; I'm now begining to forget about the Win 7 installation/ boot option except for compatibility testing.

So... Get a Start Menu replacement... Give it a couple of months...

The desktop UI is no worse than Win 7 and in some ways better/ preferable.

The Metro Interface is more, it does not seem to cost more, and more is more, and do not even have to use it!

 

[1DMF]

If everything is exactly the same only better, can you advise where I find, 'Manager Wireless Connections', I can't find it for love nor money!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[HughLerwill]

Does

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/manage-wireless-network-profiles

help...

 

[strongm]

>the awful metro

Right, and here's where we differ, and where we might find where it is I defend (and criticise at the same time!) Microsoft.

The Metro/Modern interface is actually pretty good. In the right place. And that place is on touch-enabled devices, so phones (so might be nice if they actually got actual W8 onto a phone instead of the less capable WP8), phablets and tablets. It is appalling on desktop machines (and no, adding a touch-enabled screen to the desktop does not really make Metro usable in that environment).

The big problem is that Microsoft decided to bet the farm on a mobile touch interface, and as a result wanted to de-emphasise the desktop. To be honest, I suspect that there was a chunk of MS that probably recommended that the classic desktop not be included at all in Windows 8. Whilst cooler heads seem to have been victorious there, it is reasonably clear that the vision was that the desktop was only there to allow legacy code to run - and, as a result, the desktop did not need to have all the bells and whistles of the Windows 7 desktop, so they dumbed down the desktop GUI (e.g. the missing Wifi configuration GUI - all the functionality is there, but you have to drive it from netsh command in the command prompt).

And square windows? Well, that was to make the desktop look a little bit more like Metro. And the loss of many of the neat W7 graphical flourishes (Aero, peek, translucency, shadows, etc, etc.) was again because of the emphasis on touch devices - all those graphics need GPU and CPU horsepower, and GPU horsepower eats battery (and touch devices need to conserve as much battery power as possible) and mobile CPUs are less powerful than their desktop counterparts, hence the graphical flourishes have to go. Understandable if you appreciate Microsoft's focus on mobile devices, and another demonstration that they were not really interested in desktop users (understandable, but not particularly smart)

And the 'new' Start button that takes you back to the Metro home page? Just another example of Microsoft still trying to persuade people that Metro is the heart of W8.1 rather than the desktop.

So, for the desktop environment Windows 8/8.1 is far from ideal (although I'd argue that below the GUIs - and the fact that there are two different GUIs is part of the problem - the OS is pretty damned good).

And so we see Windows 'Threshold' on the horizon, which we are told is likely to be named Windows 9 to distance itself from Windows 8 (in much the same way that what was essentially Vista SE was re branded as Windows 7) coming in to play. As I said in the other thread, the idea that Metro apps can run in a Window on the desktop is extremely important. You reject this on the basis of questioning who the heck would want to run Metro apps on the desktop. But that isn't the point. The point is that by doing this Microsoft are overtly admitting that the classic desktop is at least as important as Metro - and that's a big, important change in focus.

 

[sircles]

I don't really understand how they could have over-reacted so wildly to tablets and mobile phones that they were prioritising Metro over the desktop?

Surely what was really happening is that Microsoft just wanted to consolidate all of their development into one OS and so Windows 8 was the first step.

I still don't really see how they thought that would work though as Windows 8 in its entirety would never run on a mobile phone or tablet. It is a huge, bulky, backwards compatible monster that surely was never suitable for mobile devices and no mobile device can run or would need to run the old software anyhow. I suppose they need their rapid development stuff to run across every platform?

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