Any Good Opinions of Windows 8 To Date? 15

[kjv1611]

So far, from my perspective, I think Windows 8 is looking to make Windows ME even look good in retrospect. A month or two ago, I installed the consumer preview in a virtual machine, and had it running - did take a little tweaking but not much. However, once I had it running, it did look like I was trying to control a giant phone with a mouse - forget the keyboard at all - and frankly, what I clicked just didn't make sense. To me, nothing felt intuitive at all. I could pick up any version of Ubuntu Linux I've seen to date, and though I'm not as familiar, at least it mostly feels intuitive, even the latest one I've tried where they try to go somewhat Mac-ish. I suppose Microsoft has decided to not try to copy the Mac anymore on their interface, but rather just make a big dumb smartphone. Maybe it should now be labeled Windows Smart-top.

Any good experience so far? Any reason to try it again? I only gave it 10, maybe 15, minutes of my time.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[xwb]

It may be the Dell but the other problem is that I can't get any faster than 100M. I would have thought that with USB3 and a gigabit attachment, I would be able to get past the 100M barrier. I can do that with USB2 on most machines: just not the W8 Dell laptop.

A lot of the things make sense if you are using a phone but it doesn't make any sense if you are using a PC.

 

[audiopro]

Let's go back to the days of old where computers were supplied empty and the user decided what software and programs they wanted to install. I thought I was buying a computer with Windows 8 on it but on setup, it appears impossible to stop it spending a full hour, filling my hard disk with downloaded garbage.

I bought this new machine as my old XP machine would not be supported for much longer and no other reason. I did not buy the new computer because it ran too fast but I have somehow ended up with a slower computer - if that is progress, we have lost the plot somewhere.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[dilettante]

Windows 8 is a punishment for those who waited too long to move off XP.

 

[xwb]

audiopro, you need to right click on all the online stuff and switch it offline. I had the same problem: the network just locked up big time because all the apps where running. I just went round switching everything off and now the machine behaves like I think it should.

 

[audiopro]

I have turned the online stuff off already but suspect that the machine needs more memory. I thought 2GB would be plenty but in this age of bloated code, it would seem not.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[xwb]

Don't really know about the memory requirements. When buying machines, I go for the highest screen resolution and the most memory offered. If it is a second hand one, I always ask if they can increase the memory to the max.

Under task manager/performance, what does the graph look like - is the blue line for memory right up at the top or quite far down? That will tell you whether or not you need more memory.

 

[audiopro]

It hovers around the middle.

I have never been a hardware geek so I just go with the flow. The shop only offered 2 desktop boxes, the rest of the display is made up of pretty laptops.

Ironic really because the first PC I bought, back during the industrial revolution, had a 210Mb hard drive, 2 Mb of memory and could store everything I needed to work all week. Most tasks were relatively quick and there were no complaints from me.

The latest computer has a mega squiggle processor, 1 TB hard drive, 2 GB of memory and runs like a snail on valium. If this is progress then thank our lucky stars these designers didn't lead the industrial revolution otherwise we would all be living in Black houses and the only thing we would be driving are sheep.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[kjv1611]

audiopro,

On your memory/RAM:
1. Any PC post Windows XP should be running with at least 4GB of Ram. Memory is dirt cheap now, if it's "current" technology. If you go ahead and upgrade yours from 2GB to 4GB, you should see a huge improvement. While your at it, you might as well check to see if it's possible (should be w/most new / semi-new machines to up it to 8GB, actually. No, you may not need it now, but might as well get the RAM while it's cheap - if you wait say 3 to 5 years, it'll cost at least 2 to 3 times the current price, b/c your current memory will then be out-dated, and the supply will therefore decrease.

2. Your processor can also be to blame, if it's a celeron, for instance. With the prices of the Core i series of CPUs, I wouldn't mess with anything less anymore (currently). That's my personal opinion, b/c I've seen too many Celeron and AMD lower-end CPUs freeze up on seemingly simple tasks. Hasn't always happened, but definitely enough that it's worth spending another $50 or $100 to get at least a "decent" processor.

3. I think that your main problem is the RAM - 2GB is just too low for computers currently. Think about it - many modern phones will come with 1GB to 2GB of RAM if you look at their specs online. No reason a desktop wouldn't use that much or more. Computers do LOADS more now than they did when you could run on 2MB.

And here's something else interesting I read just this week on Windows 8:
(Well, one reference - not the one I read the other day, but you can search for more)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2047...-the-nsa-the-german-government-thinks-so.html

Needless to say, reading a little on the latest topic did not encourage me to move, personally, to Windows 8 anytime soon. I already had no desire, so now I somehow have less than no desire?

Windows 7 is GREAT, I think, far better than anything prior. Windows 8, though, is a big step backwards. There have been some tests to show it boots faster, but I'd rather wait a few more seconds at boot, and get a usable system for actually doing what I want to do. I suppose if all someone does is hop on facebook, email, Internet, then Windows 8 would be good enough... then again.. also if they don't mind how easy it apparently is for certain folks to just hop on and watch what they're doing on their PC - every keystroke... and then even take control when you decide to go to bed for the night, and leave your PC on, so it can run maintenance tasks.


"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[audiopro]

More memory is going in later in the week.
I am not convinced that modern computers 'do more' than they used to, what I am aware of is that more garbage is loaded and run in the background than there ever was and that sloppy bloated coding is the norm rather than anything efficiently written. Efficient code was vital when memory/storage was expensive but now programs which should only be a few MB have expanded into 10 or maybe a 100 times that. A good example of that code is in printer drivers, they used to be in the order of a few K in size. The latest one I have for a Canon printer is over 40MB, what on earth is it coded to do other than print and scan?

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[kjv1611]

Do more:
1. "auto-detect" devices - this happens by drivers / processes running in the background, using memory.
2. various security-monitoring applications / services - these also use memory - you didn't NEED much less have much available in the day when you used 2MB of RAM
3. daylight time savings auto-adjudtments - granted, this isn't a big one, but it is something that has to run in the background, and was not previously an option.
4. Checking for updates - this requires a few pieces - the installed software / hardware has to be checked, data sent out to online sources, where they can check for any newer versions - all of this was non-existent before - and really wouldn't be needed unless you were not connected to the Internet, and viruses, etc, were not as rampant.
5. Any types of communications - practically all modern communications applications are constantly checking for new messages, notifications, in the background - another item that was not even possible before.
6. Built in system monitoring tools - You wouldn't used to get ANY notification if something were about to crash. Now, if a machine has been running for weeks on end, you can suddenly get a warning that your disk may have issues, and you need to back-up your data. Granted, it doesn't catch every possible issue, but these monitoring tasks will catch some.

All of the above are things that modern computers do that older computers did not do. And there is more, of course there is a lot of stuff that we don't really NEED or often WANT them to do, that they do as well.

On printer software, much the same - much more automation, much more automatically checking ink levels, printer connection status, etc. However, you can also often disable a lot of this if you don't really want it - of course how and what you disable depends upon the manufacturer, as well as the driver package.

Another reason for larger amounts of memory is the bits... when you used 2MB, you were probably running what, 8bit or maybe 16bit OS? Now, current standard is 64bit... so anything that runs in memory automatically is going to be allocated more memory than it would on those. So... it CAN use more, and therefore the OS allocates more to each process, to prevent a crash.. well, that's a tiny bit of the process/thought anyway. And I'm not an expert there for sure - just recalling different bits I've read over time.

40MB Printer driver currently isn't that bad. For some of the HP all-in-one devices, their drivers are anywhere from 120MB to 200 or 300+ MB. A lot of the reason is they usually package other programs - some trial, some "full version". There are usually stripped down drivers you can get as well, though I'm not sure you'd get a whole lot less than 40MB anymore.

Another piece that goes into the bigger sizes is prettier pictures. Those prettier pictures that tell you how much ink you have, describe things in the help files, etc, all come at a cost. You could easily create a Word Doc or PDF file, for instance, that alone took up 40MB based on what graphics you use.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[audiopro]

Most of the background tasks which you mention are very small applications, or should be but are bloated because there are very few constraints on the size of files any more. This whole thing results in us still waiting for our boxes to do their jobs.
I have a few high intensity tasks which I run on my computer from time to time, these are old programs, written in DOS and they are incredibly quick in processing large amounts of data.

I have put an extra 4GB into this box and the difference was instantly noticeable.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[flapeyre]

My laptop (a Toshiba) came with 8GB and Windows 8. In my opinion, 2GB isn't enough for anything except a bare-bones XP machine.

As programs get more bloated and memory-hungry, we need more and more memory. In 1978, I built my first computer (a Heathkit H8 with 2K - yes, two kilobytes) of memory.

In 1993, I got an 80286 with 2MB of RAM.

In 1998, I got a Dell with a Pentium and 2GB.

If this keeps up, we'll be looking at half a terabyte's worth of RAM pretty soon.

I also think that MS lowballs the minimum hardware specifications. If it boots up on 2 gig, fine. But you can't really do anything.



-- Francis
Francisus ego, sed non sum papa.

 

[kjv1611]

I also think that MS lowballs the minimum hardware specifications. If it boots up on 2 gig, fine. But you can't really do anything.

Yes you can. You can look at the pretty phone desktop screen.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[flapeyre]

Yes you can. You can look at the pretty phone desktop screen.

On my aforementioned H8, I upgraded to 16KB of RAM in order to run MS Basic (rather than Heathkit's HBASIC). HBASIC ran most programs just fine, but MS Basic had a grand total of 875 bytes free upon startup. Even then, MS programs were memory hogs. I had to shell out more $$$ to get the RAM up to 32KB so I could actually write some programs in MS Basic.

-- Francis
Francisus ego, sed non sum papa.

 

[audiopro]

Seems to me that there are many users out there who don't do much more than that, yet are looked on by their peers as experts. These experts will no doubt go on to design the next version of windows, rumoured to be called Windows Fluffy Flaps, so called because each control will be hidden under a hinged flap in order to frustrate the serious user even more by hiding all functionality.

I must confess I am getting used to Windows 8 now, although I have had to make some changes to the machine, to suit my way of working.

I can see that some people will find the Metro screen much easier to use than the traditional desktop. The same people would have loved my Sinclair Spectrum, with it's simple graphics and easy to handle, single screen display capability. I don't think the Metro Screen is a design feature, I just think it is a way of dumbing down what has become to some a far too complex machine to use.



Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[IndianaSkinny]

I finally came out of the dark ages last week and bought my first personal laptop, with Windows 8. My first disappointment was spending close to a grand on a PC, putting a DVD in the drive, and can't figure out how to play it. The 2nd disappointment was figuring out how to extend the desktop to the HDMI monitor and the next time I boot up, the laptop and monitor were again displaying the same screen. I still havent figured out how to get it back to extend.

On a positive note, I was able to install the newest version of the program I intended to use on the laptop and it works. I've only spent a couple hours on the machine so it's way too early to give thumbs up or down on the OS. Need to spend the time to figure things out. Problem is that I started with the Apple II days and now, seem to have more of the CRS syndrome. :^)

 

[linney]

DVD playback options for Windows

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-AU/windows/dvd-playback-help

VLC media player

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...s&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=cr&ei=Q38vUoGBMsX5kgX_xYDIBA

See if the Windows Key + P allows you the options to Extend etc.

 

[kjv1611]

Hey, cool shortcut, Linney - I never knew it or else just forgot, b/c never used... [Windows] + {P} - hopefully I'll remember that when I need it... just SO rare.. I'll probably forget again.



"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[kjv1611]

By the way, IndianaSkinny, I do know that the ninite.com installer runs fine on Windows 8, in case you want something to handle installs of free software such as VLC for you. It skips a lot of the toolbar options and such, and just does a silent install for you.. It's great.

http://ninite.com

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[IndianaSkinny]

Thanks, Linney.
The windows+P worked and I also found that right click on the desktop, screen resolution option works for extending the screen.
VLC media play seems to work well too.
I can't say that I 'like' Windows 8 yet, but the more time I spend working with it, the deeper I want to get into it.