xp networking without using wizard 2

[gusset]

if you know of an internet site that could give me the basics, please would you point me to it? ...thanks

i don't know much about networking but i know that my two computers are not talking to each other!

i don't want to use the network wizard because 1. i want to do things for myself and to learn from this and 2. i have tried the wizard on several computers, with only unhelpful error messages to show for my efforts (it tells me to try again with different settings, but doesn't say what settings i might change).

i know it ought to be easy to network two xp computers.

all i have done so far is to give them similar IP addresses : A has 192.168.0.1 and B has 192.168.0.2 ... i gave them identical subnets, i.e. 255.255.255.0.

i'm not sure what else i need to do. the internet has proved unhelpful so far, because all the sites assume that the wizard works.

thanks again

gusset

 

[manarth]

ipconfig /release and ipconfig /renew will only work on an adapter using DHCP - if the adapter's set to use static IP they return "The operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for this operation". This is normal operation.

I'm afraid I can't think of anything to shed light on the problem though, will post back if anything springs to mind.

<marc> i wonder what will happen if i press this...[ul][li]please give feedback on what works / what doesn't[/li][li]need some help? how to get a better answer: faq581-3339[/li][/ul]

 

[bcastner]

The Firewire bridge bothers me.

In My Network Places see if there is an &quot;Incoming Connections&quot; entry. If so, delete it.

In Network Connections, Properties, right-click the Network Bridge and delete it.

In the properties for the 1394 adapter, give it a fixed Ip of 192.168.100.1 (anything other than your default IP scheme)

You do not want bridging enabled on the 1394 adapter.

 

[manarth]

1394 - Well spotted bcastner, that one flew right past me!
(That also explains the 400 Mbps connection mentioned in the first few posts - the firewire card operates at 400 Mbps)

gusset - I take it you do have a Network card in the host (other than the firewire card)?

Check under &quot;Network Connections&quot; - how many entries are there?
If there is more than one, and you're not sure which one applies to the LAN and which one to the firewire, right click the entry and select properties. The adapter info is listed in a drop-down at the top of the properties box.

By the way, are you on AOL? If so, ICS won't share on AOL connection.

<marc> i wonder what will happen if i press this...[ul][li]please give feedback on what works / what doesn't[/li][li]need some help? how to get a better answer: faq581-3339[/li][/ul]

 

[bcastner]

Yeah manarth,

1394 escaped me for a while too. It has escaped me on other machines as well. I used to believe you could ignore it.

The 1394 can cause real problems. I prefer to remove the board if possible when setting up a network, or &quot;uninstall&quot; the adapter in Device Manager at the very least. After everytyhing is fine with the LAN, add the board back or enable it. You will have to watch that a bridge is not imediately created, and an &quot;Incoming Connection&quot; entry made in Network Connections. Just delete the bridge and the Incoming Connection, and set the board to a different subnet.

 

[gusset]

thanks, guys

i had independently come to the conclusion after speaking to someone else, that 1394 must refer to a firewire, not a network connection.

as it is a new computer, i assumed that the LAN connection would be network.

not sure any more if there is a network card. i shall find out.

gusset

 

[bcastner]

It is a network connection to XP, and in fact can be very fast. You need a firewire cable to connect to a second PC that can be no more than fifteen feet away or approximately 5 meters.

I think in your case however you would be happier purchasing a PCI ethernet adapter. A reasonable adapter for your network is not very expensive.

 

[Loknar]

hmm just a suggestion but if you ctrl+alt+del zone alarm, i think the truevector service (the zone alarm firewall service) blocks off all access to networks as a security feature. what you want to do is right click on the zone alarm icon in the systray, and click on &quot;shutdown zonealarm pro&quot;

i'm not sure if the feature is still implemented but i know it used to be implemented as part of the system security to prevent worms from killing the zone alarm process.

 

[compgirlfhredi]

Back to the original question ( If no one minds... just in case someone else would like to:
&quot;if you know of an internet site that could give me the basics, because 1. i want to do things for myself and to learn from this and 2. i have tried the wizard on several computers, with only unhelpful error messages to show for my efforts (it tells me to try again with different settings, but doesn't say what settings i might change).&quot;

I pointed my neighbor to these sites as a trial n error when he had (in his words) &quot;No clue&quot;

Home Network 2003

http://www.tschmidt.com/writings/HomeLAN2003.htm#_Toc27470197

_________________________________________
Designing a Windows-Based Local Area Network

http://delltech.150m.com/XP/lans/7.htm

_________________________________________
HOW TO: Prevent the Network Setup Wizard From Creating a Bridge in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...crosoft.com/support/kb/articles/q283/4/29.asp

__________________________________________
HOW TO: Use the Alternate Configuration Feature for Multiple Network Connectivity in Windows XP:

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...crosoft.com/support/kb/articles/q283/6/76.asp

 

[gusset]

bcastner

as i say, i assumed all along that the &quot;LAN or high-speed&quot; connection implied that i had a network card installed.

how do i tell?

in system-hardware-device manager, the &quot;network adapters&quot; entry shows only 1394 Net Adapter and Connexant AccessRunner (the internet connection). i assume that this means i need to buy an ethernet card. i find it hard to believe that in this day and age a computer would come without one.

right, thanks again for your help, all

good luck to me.

gusset

 

[bcastner]

You do not have an ethernet board installed. Go buy one, as they are incredibly cheap right now.

 

[bcastner]

Let me expand my advice to you a small bit.

Go to your computer shop and purchase:

1. A cable/DSL broadband router w/ 4-port switch. Purchase the best deal you can get on price. Currently my local shop lists an SMC broadband router for US $9.95 after rebates.

2. Purchase one &quot;Cat 5&quot; drop cable for each workstation. These are straight-thru &quot;patch&quot; configurated cables. You can buy them in different lengths, get something that is roughly as long as you guess + 1 meter or 3' more. If they want more than US $7 for a roughly 4 meter or 12' cable, buy the cable elsewhere. My local shop wanted $30 for a 6' cable, its competitor US $2.99.

3. Purchase a reasonable PCI ethernet 10/100 adapter. Around US $ 12-15 is about right. Linksys, Dlink, SIIG, SMC, Belkin, all are fine.

Connect your internet modem to the WAN port, set all clients to &quot;Obtain an IP address automaticly&quot;, follow my original checklist above. Note my concerns about Bridging for the 1394 adapter.

Done.

 

[gusset]

what a complete dim-wit i am.

i have just checked with my computer supplier and discovered that, although i have an ethernet adapter/card, it was not &quot;enabled at the BIOS&quot;. i didn't know that this sort of item needed to be enabled at the BIOS. why the heck would it not be enabled? the firewire connection (as we now know it to be) was!

this demonstrates to me how, in IT, knowledge is built on smaller bits of knowledge, each of which needs to be in place before more complex tasks can be achieved.

sorry!

i am please to report that i can now successfully ping the slave from the host (though not, as yet, the host from the slave) and i am therefore satisfied that i have solved the problem i posed to you at the start of the thread: my computers are now talking to each other.

next stop on this new journey of mine into Windows networking: ICS and file-sharing.

thanks to everyone who helped me, with special recognition for the long-suffering and always-helpful bcastner (your latest checklist followed, thanks again).

best wishes

gusset

 

[bcastner]

Get the file sharing done first, prior to ICS. Treat them as to seperate issues.

Everyone here wants to help as you originally wanted to do this without using the Windows XP &quot;Network Consultant Employment Ensured&quot; Wizard.

Best advice at this point:

. Disable any and all firewalls. You can add them later, but they usually block completely your networking efforts. If using Norton, Zone Alarm and others, you want to disable them from MSCONFIG and not from the task tray icon. Or better, go to the web sites for the firewall manufacturer and look under their Support section. It is usually a small matter to add your local LAN to a Trusted Zone to prevent problems.

. Forget ICS. You can purchase a broadband 4-port router anymore for less than US $20.

 

[gusset]

don't worry, bcastner. i've no intention of using the wizard. if i suggested otherwise, it was unintentional.

thanks for the tips about the firewall and ICS. (i think i meant ics).

 

[spool]

Hello all,

I've been looking for a solution for this IEEE 1394 adapter thing for a while. I posted a number of times for help on this but with no joy. When I load XP and want to add it to a network I get more times then not in Local Area Connection, IEEE 1394 Adapter and a Bridge Icon in network connections. If I deleted or disabled the 1394 adapter or the Bridge the network stops working. And when the computer would be shut down and restarted the Icons would come back.

Now when I would go to Local Area Connections proprieties I could not set any IP's or advanced settings it would send me to the 1394 adapter there I would find all the settings. All the information I got about 1394 was that it is Fire wire. So I'm wondering why it's messing up networking connections. I still haven't found that out yet but I found out how to get rid for it.

I tried to delete the Bridge and the 1394 but it could not be deleted. I kept getting a can't delete because it is being used. I pulled the cable from the NIC went back to Local Area Connections and now I was able to delete them. I shut down the computer plugged the cable back in restarted the computer. I went back into Local area connections the Icons came back.

I went to Google Search and finely found it, after about three days I found the site that had the solution.

And here it is:

Go to Device Manger in the list double click Network Adapters. You will see IEEE 1394 Network adapter and your NIC's adapter. Delete the IEEE 1394 Adapter. Now your not done yet because when you restart the computer the IEEE 1394 Adapter returns. Do not restart the computer.

Now when the IEEE 1394 is deleted go back up the list and look for IEEE 1394 Bus Host controllers click on the + and you will see something like this, Texas instruments OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller. Double click on it and disable it don't delete it. Restart the computer go to Device Manager IEEE 1394 is gone from Network Adapters and the IEEE 1394 and Bridge Icons are gone in Network Connections. Now before I do any networking with XP I do the above first.

I would like to know why everyone seems to think that IEEE 1394 is only for Fire Wire. XP seems to default to this IEEE 1394 adapter when networking is being configured.

If anyone knows why please post. If I come across the information I will post it verbatim.

spool

 

[bcastner]

&quot;firewire&quot; was an Apple designation for the 1394, and it just stuck for lack of a better one.

It is a network adapter to XP, and quite frankly it can be used as such. But it can be a serious pain to work around. My less than elegant approach at the moment:

In My Network Places see if there is an &quot;Incoming Connections&quot; entry. If so, delete it.

In Network Connections, Properties, right-click the Network Bridge and delete it.

In the properties for the 1394 adapter, give it a fixed Ip of 192.168.100.1 (anything other than your default IP scheme)

You do not want bridging enabled on the 1394 adapter.

If possible, remove the board from the XP client workstation prior to setting up networking. In the alternative, disable the device through Device Manager. You do not need to uninstall the 1394 device.

 

[spool]

bacastner, Thanks for your input. There is an old saying, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

My experience in this matter has shown that when someone sets up networking with XP, XP always adds the 1394 adapter and that bridge using the wizard or doing it manually. Changing the IP to fixed is logical for you and I, but for normal users without computer background this can be very frustrating. All the user wants, is what XP promised, the ease of use. We can see by all the posts for help on this forum that XP is not that user friendly.

I think XP should not add anything to a configuration without explaining what the need for it is. The one setting it up should have the choice.

When a customer comes to me with a network problem or wants me to set up a small network, I get rid of the 1394 adapter and the bridge all together. Human nature causes us to think that we can fix anything ourselves. By taking those icons out of Network Connections the customer won't have the temptation to play with it, to save money on a service call. After I do the setup, if they have a problem most of the time, it is small and it can be fixed at no charge.

In a corp setting we can lock the user out of areas we don't want them in. In a home setting, we can't lock people out of their computers. We can, in some cases, remove or hide things that can get them into deep do do.

I just wanted to put another perspective on the subject. Thanks for listening.

spool

 

[bcastner]

I agree with you that XP should be clearer about the 1394. If you read their response:

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...crosoft.com/support/kb/articles/q283/4/29.asp

It seems they feel the issue is made clearly enough to avoid any problems.

The problems I have seen at client sites is not the initial setup, it is when someone adds a firewire device (and adapter) to use a camera or othe WIA device service, or for an external hard disk drive.

Suddenly there LAN and internet connections stop working. The MS response is woefully inadequate in this instance. The automatic establishment of the 1394 as a bridged network device offers none of the option choices that MS speaks to in the KB article.

If you noticed an earlier message from manarth in this thread, you will see that it took a long time for several experienced network guys to figure out the 1394 problem. If anyone here had been on-site the issue would have been immediately apparant, as would the BIOS issue for the ethernet adapter.

But gusset reported faithfully what he saw, and what made sense or did not. It should be noted that because of the BIOS issue and the less than clear prompting that would occur for the 1394, running the Network Wizard would not have helped this user at all.

 

[gusset]

well, this is exciting stuff. i have DHCP enabled, i can ping, net send and see the shared folders on the host from the slave

i can't see the shared folders of the slave from the host though. when i run &quot;\\SlaveComputer\SharedFolder&quot; (or even &quot;\\SlaveComputer&quot, the host's error message is &quot;SlaveComputer is not accessible. you might not have permission to use this network resource. contact your administrator... logon failure: the user has not been granted the requested logon type at this computer&quot;. i have set up, on the slave, an xp username and password which is identical to the username and password on the host. as far as i know, there is nothing strange in the settings of the slave or the host.

incidentally, the properties page of the shared documents folders on slave and host are different - can anyone guess why? on the slave's properties page, the sharing tab is greyed out, though the grayed, selected options include &quot;share this folder on the network&quot;.

neither can i use the host's internet connection from the slave using ICS. bcastner, i intend to follow your advice to use a router rather than ICS. my object is to wireless-network the house but i'd like to get it to work using ICS first, before i make the investment.

in the network places window, there is a connection entry for &quot;HostComputers Internet&quot;. double-clicking on that shows a reassuring packets sent and received, which both increment by 4 when i ping. IE gives the &quot;page cannot be displayed&quot; error. i thought that i might be able to use the tools-internet options-connections tab to add this connection to the internet options, but a new connection wizard starts up and none of the options assists, even the one suggested by the so-called Help Centre. i downloaded Netscape in case this was an IE problem, but this doesn't have an equivalent set of options. i'll stick with netscape as a private snub to microsoft

tomorrow, i'll borrow a router from work to see if that helps.

i sure hope that this account of one person's journey into xp networking helps others in future. that will be one of the few consolations to this sorry episode!

 

[gusset]

well, i bought a wireless router. the rest of the kit hasn't arrived yet, so its a wired network at the moment.....but at least its no longer a notwork!

router was a very good price on ebay - $50. i strongly recommend this option for others trying to network. i don't need to worry about the ICS problem any more. but i do need to worry about network security. fortunately, this will be well documented, unlike the ICS.

however, i can't see the shared folders of the (old) slave from the (old) host. the error message is still &quot;SlaveComputer is not accessible. you might not have permission to use this network resource. contact your administrator... logon failure: the user has not been granted the requested logon type at this computer&quot;.

funny thing is, as i was running various network wizards, the situation reversed itself - i could see the shared folders of the (old) slave from the (old) host but no longer the other way around. in trying to replicate what i did, i re-reversed the situation, so it is back to what it was before...tantalising.

i sure wish i knew what the wizard did so that i could try each of the steps in isolation.

any ideas?

thanks,

gusset