Wiring recommendation for IPO 9.1 move 7

[MiamiMax]

Hello, can anyone suggest a wiring soloution to the following for a move to a new buildong:

IPO 9.1 with 60 Endpoints and using 9608s. The current location had a network cabling for voice and data devices and POE switches so providing power to the 9608s was clean and easy with not plug in POEs under each desk.

The new building s older and was prewired with cat 5 however each voice jack at each desk was only using a single pair that use to be connected to a Nortel T7316e set.

Is there an economical way to provide connection to each 9608 at each desk without adding a POE injector at each desk. For example can I add for example a white orange pair to each jack back to the 66 block and then add power from the POE source.

The problem with just rewiring each jack with all 4 pairs is that some runs were split in to for two T7316e sets.

I'm trying to keep expenses low and also keep the amount of rewiring or retrofitting to a minimum.

I figured some of you experienced guys would have run into this same issue and would have a good wiring plan to recommend.

Thanks.

 

[Westi]

OMG wire the building if you want to avoid problems
if you have a single pair right now you don't get data on that cable as it is either cat3 or older also 66 block is not anywhere data compatible as the 66 stands for 1966

You can share voice and data if you have a cat5 (cat5e as cat5 is these days like a black and white TV, you see things but not great) cable at the desks and simply use the built in switch of the phone to connect the PC but if you don't have at least cat5e then forget it as it will cause you more issues than you save money on not wiring.

Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS

"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque

 

[MiamiMax]

Its easy to say "OMG wire the building" this is a non profit very poor local community organization for children with Down Syndrome.

If you would like to make a contribution to pay for the wiring of the building I am sure the retired folks who volunteer their will be happy to accept your financial solution.

Thank you.

 

[dagwoodsystems]

Using an available spare pair is certainly a solution. In some ways, it would be really nice to have all the transformers back in the telco room. But I think the trouble of tweaking each jack to accommodate that is much more trouble than quickly crawling under a desk and plugging a wall wart down there. Plus--as you pointed out--a cable run could be split up to four ways which leaves you nothing to work with.

I understand the challenges of non-profits and have often found myself going down a rabbit hole trying to "do it right" while working under an impossible budget. Frankly, I wouldn't overthink this one.

And no, "66" does not refer to a year, it was Western Electric's base model number. The earliest version of this type of block (there are several) first appeared in 1962 with modifications made up to 1984.

Tim Alberstein

 

[MiamiMax]

Thank you Tim for you kind and professional reply and the the historical information about the 66 block.

 

[dagwoodsystems]

Oh my gosh, I gave you good advice for 9508s but terrible advice for 9608s. Because I marked the post I went back and reread this and now I have facepalm. I was thinking of one pair because you were talking about the old Nortel stuff. As Westi said, you're going to need two pair for the data plus local power to get 9608 IP phones working. I've not run those sets over CAT3, but I suspect they would work. Newer 66 blocks are rated for CAT5 (but not CAT5e) which would exceed the CAT3 spec. Would you like me to stage a CAT3 cable run through a punch block to see if I can get a 9608 to work over, say, a 100 foot run? That would be my charitable contribution to your cause.

Tim Alberstein

 

[biglebowski]

If it is cat5 out to the desks I'd look at replacing the 66 with RJ45 patch panels (or possibly Krone blocks if they are cheaper)

For 60x positions it won't be that big a piece of work to do yourself.

Personally I'd be talking to local wiring/cabling companies to do the job for free or peanuts on the basis of sponsorship or a favourable story in the local press.

 

[nnaarrnn]

You need all 4 pairs if they're gigabit. Gigabit= 4 pair.

You need two pair, THE CORRECT two pair (twist rate) for 100mbit.

If you plug 1-pair that's fed by digital or analog telephony device, you're going to zap your IP phones.


How are the computers connected?

 

[sizbut]

There are workarounds and bodges to get things working on old wiring. But ultimately everything will be a lot easier if you wire the whole place full fat 8-wire RJ45 end-to-end for every desk, potential desk. Workaround fixes now will just keep on hitting you with further layers of workarounds fixes in future. You'll rarely get the chance of a clean sheet to renew a whole business's data and power wiring - take it when you can.

A good wiring company can be in and out and do the actual wiring much quicker than time it will take to do the actual planning. So start planning now where you want desks, ports and equipment. And put at least 2 RJ-45 ports per desk.

Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.

 

[Westi]

hi dagwoodsystems
I thought 1966 was the year, thanks for clarifying it. Still don't know why all the new installations still come on 66 block in the US.
I guess the "never change a winning system" method has been applied while the rest of the world goes with BIX, Krone or country specific ones that are similar to those.

Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS

"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque

 

[ipohead]

The spec for the phones is 10/100mb Ethernet so just wondering if they would work at 10mb which Cat 3 supports.

On some switches it is possible to drop a port down to 10mb to see what happens!

 

[MiamiMax]

Tim, thank you.

 

[dialtonebone]

Not sure if it would be cost effective, but check out Phybridge.
It would let you have supported scenario using POE and phones with old wiring.

 

[MiamiMax]

Bone, yes I recall looking at Phybridge last year will do again.

https://www.nvtphybridge.com/portfolio-item/nv-pl-024-048/

 

[ipohead]

I did a quick test on a J139 and dropped the port on the switch down to 10mb and it seemed to work.

A voice call shouldn't need much bandwidth but of course not the ideal way to do things.

 

[kwing112000]

IF you are going to hard code the ports to a speed you need to do both ends and not just the switch port. it can cause duplex mismatches and audio quality issues.

Kevin Wing
ACSS Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Communications
ACS- Implement IP Office
ACA- Implement IP Office
Vive Communications

 

[Westi]

MiamiMax
if you look at phybridge then your building must be quite sizable to make this solution cheaper than new wiring and remember that this will require power at the desk to keep running so add a UPS to each phone otherwise you are down with every power blip.

To compare it make sure to get also a few wiring quotes in and don't just go to the local electrician as a lot of electricians are not really competent running data cables (some are so don't yell at me). You don't need cat6 or better, which is what some companies like to quote, go for a cat5e quote and that will keep the wire price down and maybe ask the companies to consider the non-profit aspect and get a lower price plus a donation receipt.
As for my initial comment, I have seen places where we installed on existing cabling that we said was not up to par and troubles related to the cabling was always leading to the customer being unhappy as phones behaved odd and calls dropped etc. and of course the customer called in for service until we dropped some of those customers because they refused to fix the wiring.
Good wiring = less problems


Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS

"Dew knot truss yore Spell Cheque