What to do about pesstimistic boss(CEO) 7

Karl Blessing · May 4, 2000

I'm in a very small software company (bout 5 employees, James(CEO), Ranee(CEO's wife, and Customer Service Rep), Josh(VP & developer), Shavonne(developer), and me Karl( Programmer/Analyst according to my title) I'm the newest employee by about 6 months now. right now I am studying for Visual Interdev 6 certification, the only main reference used is Master Web applications with visual interdev 6, and I just taken the cert exam today, which i failed by 50 points, he's going to have me take it again next week, but throught out the month, his additued takes any small thing, and turned it into a big negative thing againts himself, for example today, I am leaving 15 Mins earlier than I normally do (but its also leaving 15 mins later than the core hours required) says I'm leaving early, and I said yes, but he start saying that then I dont feel that there is anything more I need to learn then, and I should consider even comming in tomarrow, If i feel i dont think I can learn any more, all this over planning on leaving the office 15 mins early, and I walk to and from work, 30 min walk.  There has been several other events like this, in which I never talked back, and always tried to avoid confrontations. Is there any tips to work around or avoid these type of bosses. (another thing is I am the only employee that knows VC++, and has used more development tools together than the other staffs, according to rannee I learn as fast as the technology moves, in otherwords, I'm the only one that goes out learns the material as it appears on the market) Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

akbryer · May 9, 2000

Of course, the apartment, utilities and other benefits are nice perks. I my opinion, medical insurance is probably the most important benefit you can get. Your position does not sound bad. The hours are normal. Can you find another position where you can earn enough money to pay for the apt, and the utilities, have disposable income, better benefits (esp medical), and thsat will provide a job atmospher, with advancement opportunities? I think its possible. I agree with whoever indicated that project leadership is a requirement in many I/T depts; but, there are so many different types of organizations, with more types of needs than I could ever imagine. I think the key to good job search is to research the marketplace, including the use of fee-paid placement agencies. Research the companies that you think that you might want to work for. Compare your skills against the skill necessary to fill the high-end positions. It will take time to conduct the research, but I think its worth the time and the effort. Later. Gary (akbryer) <a href=mailto:Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com>Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com</a> <a href= > </a> 
 
Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

Ghost · May 9, 2000

I may be from the old school where you have to pay your dues.  But, telling a guy appears to have a lot to learn in his first job to go looking equates to telling a boxer in the ring that there are bikini clad women in the front row to watch. If he doesn't have his head in the game at work for a few years (assuming his boss is reasonable and he is still learning) without looking around he'll get his head handed to him.  Advancement does not come without discipline. Don't mean to get into an argument here.  Just trying to point out it is a misconception to think everyone should ALWAYS be looking. Why is it the recruiters want you to churn your job every 3 years until you are 40?  Because they make more money on you.  Than at 40 the calls don't come in as often.... The choice of your job is not unlike any other investment you make.  Pick one for the right reasons, and don't bail out at the first little dip.

Ghost

akbryer · May 9, 2000

Ghost, I can't argue with you. Your points are valid and, really, should be stressed. I think I differ with you about one point. Looking (researching the market) does not hurt. In fact, looking will reveal much about your current status. Are you qualified to move on to more responsibility? Are you qualified to earn more money? What  should you learn to move. Looking helps you consciuosly decide how to guide your career. I don't see looking as a problem. Gary (akbryer) <a href=mailto:Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com>Gary_Bryer@Vanguard.com</a> <a href= > </a> 
 
Good deeds do not go unrewarded!

Karl Blessing · May 9, 2000

as for as the comment of "Work very hard and learn for atleast 2-3 more years before even considering looking around.  (Americans tend to be less mature in these things than our non-American counterparts.) " the bold portion I dont know If I can agree with that, I myself have not always Lived in the US, and I have moved 22 times now, due to growing up in a military family. However I can freely admit to downsides of this country as well as all the issue, but to make a stereotypical statement about a country as a whole, especially one that is mixed with thousands of stereotypical cultures as it already is just doesnt seem to be very accurate. Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

Ghost · May 9, 2000

Karl, Take the good advice I give and leave behind what you think is bad.  It is only my opinion.  That is what these forums are for.  At more than twice your age, and having dealt internationally in the business world for most my life, I would say my thinking on the American business stereotype is not uninformed. Possibly curbing your quick and emotional reactions at the office like you have made here could also be an area for your personal improvement.  Developing a thick skin for constructive criticism is essential to having a healthy career. Please don't reply to this post as it will only serve to prove my point further.  (Knowing what not to type in an e-mail is sometimes more important than what gets typed in an e-mail.) Ghost ps  By the way, I am a US citizen.

Karl Blessing · May 9, 2000

I seem to have lost your point, but if its anything like the the original post you gave, basically says I'm starting out young and I should stick with the job I am doing now to absorb the knowledge and feel of a professional enviroment in order to further myself professionally and intelectually, and not for what I just "feel" like doing. Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

Ghost · May 9, 2000

Karl, Yep.  You got it.  Nicely summarized.

Good luck. Ghost

elizabeth · May 9, 2000

I agree with Gary. "Looking" is a reality check.

Karl Blessing · May 9, 2000

Based on what you guys have seen here , what are some carreer options you think I might look at a few years down the road from now? Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

Zelandakh · May 10, 2000

I think the point Ghost was trying to put across is that the American culture is the "bigger, better deal" syndrome which means that there is a faster turn around from job to job / company to company. The Germans tend to get into one company and stick with it until they run out of career path completely, in England it is similar although not quite as long. How many times have you seen someone receive their gold watch for 40 years with the same company? The point of this thread is that you boss was behaving in a way that rankled with you. You felt this put you in a bad light and that you and he should part company as quickly as possible. Look around by all means, keep on learning and control that yearning to react to others with a knee jerk reaction that puts people's backs up. There is an excellent Yorkshire saying "Hear all, See all, Say Nowt (nothing)". Listen to everything people say, watch what people are doing, think about it, digest it and only reply if you have something constructive to add. With your experience of C, VB, HTML and ASP, added to your InterDev, I suggest you build as much as you can to really understand all of them (rather than just "messed around with&quot

and then you could be a seriously competitive web site designer.

calahans · May 10, 2000

Sit tight and learn - I work in England and if I had earnt the money you get (plus the apartment) when I was your age, I would have been very happy. You seem to be getting exposure to all different languages - something that may not happen if you move to another company. However, the down side is that you seem to be the lead developer (am I wrong?) and at your age, if you will excuse me, will not have a full idea of programming. You could do with working with more senior developers to broaden your knowledge. Leave when you have learned all you can from your current job, you'll know when that has happened yourself... Cal <a href=mailto: > </a> <a href= > </a>

Karl Blessing · May 10, 2000

I in a way would be the one with the lead responsibility , but Josh and James comes up with all the ideas and how they want things done, they're the idea dreamers, but far as any coding goes, I guess you could so I am at the least second from the top on the developer line of the company. (And btw I agree with both Zelan and Cal, I've been to germany for 3 years so I know what you are talking about, england I havent had much experience, other than watching british channels when living in germany) Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

NEFF · Jul 27, 2000

Karl, In addition to the guidance that everyone else has provided you with here, take in to consideration that your boss may have been just doing that as well. Giving you advice that is. When I read what your boss said to you, it gave me a hint of him giving you a push to motivate yourself and stay a while longer to study or just work with the software you were taking the certification for. Just my 2 cents bud .

tonykerr · Aug 7, 2000

For one, confront the abusive person about the unacceptable behaviour, this will give you 30 days probation to correct any differences, it could be a reaction to bad chemistry in both parties.      Second, I have been in the technical world for many years, and I didnt see any errors in your communication skills, but as you, I chose to focus on computer language more than english perhaps.      Always study on your own time, help them achive their goals while on their time only, there is a noticable difference in people who study while they should be working.      Someone with your skills would be billed out at 10 times what they are paying, let them treat you a bit better, if you do not enjoy your work, look for somewhere that you can, life is to short to be around abusive people.      Take charge and do what they signed you on for, find out what they want you to do, and keep that in front of you all the time, if they are growing, that will grow also.

modorney · Sep 7, 2000

Collectively, all the above advice is well worth taking. One thing to bear in mind is that you may well be a "green weenie" - a relatively inexperienced worker. But this does not mean that you have to put up with abuse, certainly the half-dozen before you did not. But as a green guy, there are places that tend to hire green, but treat them well, realistically assessing the productivity and need for direction, as well as providing a learning environment that encourages people to stay. Some even go so far as ask for "gentlemen's agreements", such as "I'll pay for your next cert if you stick around for an extra year, etc." But you can probably get the same pay (which seems to be OK) but find a much better environment.
I am not familiar enough with the difference between the UK and USA, but I would guess that Americans, in general find it easier to switch jobs, and may tend to do so more often, possibly for non-job reasons (different climate, better social life in a different city, etc.) But this is only a guess, and only a generalization.
I don't know if you have a degree, but my experience has been that most of the places with abusive managers have been places that do not require degrees. (Another generalization, and America-based). You may want to consider getting a degree at night, or on the Internet, etc. This would probably make you more marketable to more firms. Perhaps someone from the UK can shed some more light in this area? [sig][/sig]

rotorhead · Sep 11, 2000

Karl:

For your qualifications, you should be making close to twice what you are.

For your age, expect people will want to pay you what you're currently making.

I moved to the US several years ago, and am now making almost three times (including exchange rates) what I was making in Canada.

At the same time, I've also gone from a 'jack of all trades' to a hardcore RPG programmer, and now back to systems analysis - sort of a roundabout way to get here, and definitely not the beaten path.

I too went through some abusive treatment - when my daughter was born almost 2 years ago, she had a brain hemmorhage - and after being told to "Do whatever you need, xxxx, to make sure your daughter is okay," I was given a written reprimand for spending too much time on the phone with both my wife and the hospital.

Just to muddy the waters, I'll mention that I'm also only 24 - a year older than you. I happen to make considerably more than you, too - It took me a year of searching both on my own and with headhunters to find my current position.

Yes, you do have to pay your dues. Yes, you do need to eat a bit of crow. Just be careful how far you let them go - my previous employer treated me horribly, up to and including the day I left for this job. At the same time, don't be froggy and jump at the slightest reprimand. They're well within their rights to verbally put it to you if you're not putting in the hours that you know you're supposed to.

I just realized something, too.. this company is paying for an apartment for you? I'd suggest that you're making much more than $30k, then, since you don't have to shell out for your own place and utilities.

Gary's right - you should be making more, cash-wise, but only if you're paying for your own apartment.

Ghost... You make that much and you're the head of the department? Geez man, that's rough. Either it's a small company, or you need to polish your resume.

I like where I am. Good pay, fantastic environment, and great surroundings for my kids to grow up in. If you don't like where you are, change it. If you're happy, stay.

Just bear in mind that there is much more than just a paycheck from any job you fill - if I had a work environment like my current one, in my LAST job... I would probably never have left, even though it was almost half the pay.

Darryl
[sig]Darryl Hadfield <a href=mailto:hadfield@mail.com>hadfield@mail.com</a> <a href= > </a> [/sig]

Karl Blessing · Sep 11, 2000

Some touch up on such an old posted topic , oh also I'm 19 not 23. Also The company is paying for the apartment and utilities, but I had to shell out enough money to pay for my hearing aids (which has me very close to the hole this month on other payments) also within the last couple weeks I've come to understand his frustration, our company contracts for the ESC (Employment Security Commission) now over there, the state employee's whose been assigned to help us on some projects, are a couple of die hard VBers, who wanted to take a knack at Internet programming, needless to say they are very poor at what they do, and put a lot of work on my co-worker who is always at the state location, they have a certain inside policy of "we mess with only our code, and you are to fix both our code and your code" Since I don't have 2 years experience(their contract) I cannot be at the state location to help my coworker with these things, as I am to be here at the wake forest location working on other stuff, and helping him occasionally over the phone, My CEO had have problems with some of the employee's there, it would seem most of them are trying to trip us, by making bogus request and so forth (these die hard VBers would really like their hands on this project, so they tend to try to trip us as much as they can so they can make us forfeit this major project)

I'm curious if all state employee's have no regards for contractors and etc, also if I were to go to the state for a job, I'd be making half of what I'm making now (which is one reason why I don't want to be state employed) Also having a baby himself for a while now , he's been spending less time here and at the state, but that's understandable he has a kid and so forth, but the State is really busting us over the head about this and that, dumb thing is that at the meetings my coworker goes to , they're always talking about color scheme, etc, looks, rather than addressing the problem, while the state employee's are "yea we can do that, Oh that's easy!" then when meetings over they tell my coworker "is that enough work for you?"

so you can see where the aggravation was funneling down from.
[sig]Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.com>

</a> Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

[/sig]

Ghost · Sep 11, 2000

Rotorhead,

Never said how much I was making in any post. You must have misread... Not a big deal, but you named me in your last post.

Ghost [sig][/sig]

rotorhead · Sep 11, 2000

Ghost: Sorry, I misread.. .it was Zelandakh who said he made about the same as Karl.

Karl:

19, not 23? Count your lucky stars. That leads me to think you're in an entry level position (regardless of the level of your work) As I said before, expect to pay your dues, and it'll come back to you in time. I'm a Systems Analyst/Project leader for a division of a Fortune 500 now... and I'm only 24. I make considerably more than $30k per year, but then again, I've got a very unique skillset (or so I'm told) that includes Windows programming, AS/400 (RPG/400 and RPGIV) programming, as well as network administration. It also helps that I grew up being something of a prodigy - I've been billing hours since I was 12.

Keep your chin up - things do get better.

[sig]Darryl Hadfield <a href=mailto:hadfield@mail.com>hadfield@mail.com</a> <a href= > </a> [/sig]

Karl Blessing · Sep 11, 2000

I might add that the Lead-Developer I mentioned long ago in these posts, was yelled out the door by my CEO (not sure if I mentioned that earlier) but in any case, it's just me here at the Home site, and my coworker down at the state site, and the CEo and his wife are usally um... well I never know, they're sometimes at home, they sometimes drop in, they sometimes go to state, and other times I dont know.

So I've been alone in the office most of the time for almost a month or more now. [sig]Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.com>

</a> Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=629151

[/sig]

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