What has this industry come to - $12/hour??? 1

[BG12424]

I just saw this posting on CareerBuilder for a position in the Chicagoland area for a web developer. Can you believe that they are wanting to only pay $12/hour? Check out the post.

The post:>>
Internet Development Company in Lisle, IL is looking for a part-time turning into full time web developer. Working 20-25 flexible hours a week in our office, the web developer will have knowledge of backend functionality of websites, Java Scripting, C++, ASP, Dream Weaver and Database Creation. No certification or degree is necessary but a good working knowledge of internet technologies. Starting hourly at $12.00 per hour.

________________________________________________________________________
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regards,
Brian

 

[rexxhead]

Sounds like The Law of Supply and Demand may be at work...

 

[CajunCenturion]

It is sad, but also understandable. Let's take a look at a few things.

How many kids, some not even out of high school, without any formal post-secondary education, do you know that are selling themselves as experts and consultants?

How many people do you know that have no formal education in computer science (or directly related fields), and yet have transitioned into the IT industry and are selling themselves as experts and consultants?

How many computer experts are under the age of 25? The field is full of wanna-be's who know enough buzzwords to sell themsevles as experts.

Supply and Demand. The supply of "experts" is so high, that the good decent wages are hard to come by. Money brought the riff-raff into this field during the Dot.Com explosion, and now the pendulum has swung back and we're in the implosion back-lash.

For now, there are too many pretenders in the field, and rates reflect total numbers and not just qualified professionals. The good news is the pretenders are leaving because they can't get rich quick in IT now, and in time, only the professionals will remain, and the rates will start going back up. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[carp]

They'll get what they pay for.

 

[palbano]

I agree with carp. Also these "type" of job listings existed even during the DOT BOMB heyday, so i'm not sure it's a sign of changing times.

And so I wake in the morning
And I step outside
And I take a deep breath and I get real high
And I scream at the top of my lungs
What's going on?
4 non-blonds

-pete

 

[BG12424]

Why are you quoting 4 non-blonds pete? ________________________________________________________________________
Are you trying to debug your ASP applications? See faq333-3255 for more details

regards,
Brian

 

[palbano]

Hi Brian, i love that song it's exactly how i feel: "What's going on!"

Have you ever heard it?

-pete

 

[BG12424]

Oh yeah, it was popular in my college days back in the early to mid 90's. ________________________________________________________________________
Are you trying to debug your ASP applications? See faq333-3255 for more details

regards,
Brian

 

[Crystalguru]

Glad I stepped into this post! I feel the same way right now-scream at the top of my lungs.

Had a friend that is certified in many different dB's but has no practical experience. He feels he "should" be employed by IT...I had to laugh. Poor Baby! Just b/c he has certification he feels he is owed a job. I feel like telling these people to go back where they came from.

later

 

[BG12424]

Got to hand it to this group. It sounds like everyone here has a college degree in computer science and have been doing this thing for years on end. I started programming about 71/2 year now.

I graduated with a Geology major, then said forget it, because I started programming at my last full-time employer part-time. This is when I realized that Geology was NOT for me, but Programming was. So I decided to make a career change. I've been doing consulting ever since.

Now, I'm in the open field looking for work, so it just gets me frustrated to see that employers are demanding these low paying rates. I think it's ridiculous, so for those above that think there are many underqualified programmers, that may be true, BUT there are those of us that love the technology and take huge pride in the services we provide to clients. It just stinks that it has come to the $12/hour, which is, let's face it, way below the going rate these days. ________________________________________________________________________
Are you trying to debug your ASP applications? See faq333-3255 for more details

regards,
Brian

 

[carp]

I get a laugh out of our local government's wantads. They take up about half a column with the qualifications they require (and they are not trivial requirements!), then finish w/ "Salary: $24k - $30k DOE".
It's ridiculous!

 

[shadyness]

I have about 4 years experience in IT, served mostly in the classic "programmer-analyst" type role and as the occasional DBA. In college (both undergrad and graduate studies) I completed BA's and MA as opposed to BS's in CS, CE, or MIS type something. Most of my professional experience has been 75% in the MS realm (SQL Server, IIS, ASP, VB and now some .NET) but on really large scale million dollar type projects. I have found out here in the N. California job market that a lot of HR people look directly for the BA in CS or even MIS and pass-over relevant experience. My close friends and co-workers with MIS degrees, although very intelligent, often seem to be missing key programming concepts when they attack a problem.

I guess what I am wondering is, can certifications replace a college education (in the resume world)? And has anyone else in the field with an educational background other than Computer Science, but experience had this type of difficulty? <== Some people say they are afraid of heights. With me its table widths. ==>

 

[CajunCenturion]

No - certifications cannot replace a college education in the resume world, in the business world, or in any other world.

You will find that in the N CA market that you reference that after they've exhausted the BSCS canididates, they will turn their attention to the other degreed candidates.

Only then will they even begin to consider certificates, but in most cases, you'll find that experience will trump a certificate. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[carp]

My impression is that a certification is good as a tie-breaker. It seems the hierarchy for consideration is:

1. Who you know.
2. Degrees.
3. Experience.
4. Certifications.
5. You would like to do this job.

Certain HRs may jostle +/- a level here or there (e.g., experience before degree or certification before experience), but this is what I've encountered.

 

[Crystalguru]

Well, if they start looking at just college degrees and not real experience I am screwed. I graduated with a BS in Biology/Chem with pre-med courses. Got into a healthcare/tech company and my exprience has grown from there. I definately think a degree is important but a degree with no &quot;real&quot; experience...that to me lacks something. Just my thoughts.

 

[palbano]

Brian said
I started programming about 71/2 year now.

Lets' see 71 divided by 2 = 35.5 years !! LOL

Brian said
Now, I'm in the open field looking for work

Most IT jobs are located in Cities rather than Rural farming comunities. Hope that helps LOL

shadyness said
can certifications replace a college education

When someone is applying for positions and the company has NO technical staff that can authoritatively question the applicants experience/knowledge during an interview then who knows how they will determine suitability. They may come to a forum and ask it’s members if a certificate should hold weight and believe whatever they are told, who knows.

If on the other hand a company uses technically capable staff to interview and ascertain an applicants qualifications then I think certificates and degrees become non-issues for the most part.

“But, that’s just my opinion… I could be wrong.”
-pete

 

[CajunCenturion]

Considering that your degree in not in an IT related curriculum, you will encounter difficultites without real world experience. You have nothing to show that you even know the basics and have any IT skills. The college degree shows a certain amount of intelligence, drive, goal-oriented, and so forth, but nothing that indicates you can write a program. You need the experience to indicate that you have IT skills.

But a degree in Comp Sci does have some experience, although not necessarily 'real', the class assignment and projects are worth something. To have a four year degree in Comp Sci means you've been dealing with computers, even if in a formal education environment, for at least four years.

So if just a degree, then what matters is what the degree is in. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[carp]

Pete -

I concur completely - real knowledge and experience should count heavily. The trick is to get to the IT staff! Unfortunately, a lot of positions get tagged with a &quot;Degree Required&quot; stipulation which, to me, is really too bad. I know for a fact that there are a lot of very talented people out there who are more qualified for jobs than myself. But I happen to have a degree and they don't, so I get my foot in the door and they don't.

I have been part of the technical staff reviewing resumes and interviewing candidates. I didn't give a rat's butt about their degrees; I wanted to find people that could do the job for us - if they had a degree, so much the better. And we interviewed a lot of degreed candidates who couldn't answer some pretty basic questions. But the technical staff review was the third iteration within the company; candidates had to get past HR and Management reviews first.

Is it right? I don't think so. But that seems to be the way it is at a lot of places. Degrees are just one more tripwire in the process. And let's face it - right now IT is a buyers' market.

 

[BG12424]

Pete,

Yeah, I've been in the farmer's field for close to 40years. No wonder, I'm having a hard time .

________________________________________________________________________
Are you trying to debug your ASP applications? See faq333-3255 for more details

regards,
Brian

 

[carp]

That would explain it, alright!