Web: Why won't clients listen to me? 18

[pl12987]

<vent>
I am so tired of clients telling me how to do my job. Everybody knows exactly what they want, regardless of whether it is good or not.

Yes, yes, we are paid to give them what they want....but that should not be an absolute.

I feel like I am being used for convenience more than expertise. Clients view my function as simply being a builder. I try, when I can, to explain why something will or will not work, why something is or is not a good idea. But that only works if the client is willing to listen, because they acknowledge that I know more about the web and/or IT than they do. More and more, nobody wants to admit that. Nobody wants to acknowledge anybody else's expertise in anything, because everybody wants to be the expert themselves.

I have spent weeks in training courses learning programming languages, spent thousands of hours coding, studied graphic design, usability, user interfaces, what makes something effective, built dozens of web sites and CDs and programs and THIS IS WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING, OKAY? I KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN YOU DO. SO YOU JUST TELL ME YOUR GOAL, AND LET ME TELL YOU HOW TO ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL.

But no, they want me to be their Front Page, they want to pick the colors, and put this here and do this and that. And they want to tell me exactly what I do so they can &quot;do it themsleves.&quot;

IF ANYBODY CAN DO ANYTHING, HOW IS ANYBODY GOING TO EARN A LIVING?

IF ANYBODY CAN PRETEND TO DO ANYTHING, HOW IS ANYTHING GOING TO BE DONE WELL?

</vent>

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

That last post gets the star Cajun. Well said.

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

&quot;I'm so with you....

I deal with users everyday who know it all. Yes, they are the experts and all we do is &quot;break&quot; their equipment.

I love it when we get phone calls like &quot;Were you in my office last night? You must've done something to my PC because it's got a black screen. I used it yesterday and I know I didn't do anthing to it.&quot;

Then I walk into their office and turn their monitor on..&quot;

So what happens when you walk into their office and the monitor doesn't turn on?

Sometimes answers are easy and right under our nose. Sometimes they are not. It doesn't make all end users clueless or us any smarter.

It's what we're there for...when things break, we fix them. How we fix them should no reflect on the end user.

 

[DarenNM]

pl12987, I agree about walking away - that's why I said

If you feel really strongly that you shouldn't give them what they are asking for then you can leave them to do it on their own (which I have done before now).

CajunCenturion, I agree that you are paid by what you produce but as a consultant I do share in the responsibility with the respect to the enterprise to a degree. If I give bad advice (which I hope I won't - I would like to think I know when to admit I have reached the limits of my knowledge) I can be sued - that's why I have professional indemnity insurance!

IT plays an important role in most businesses, but the business does not revolved around us

This is true, but depending on the nature of the business IT can be a fundamental part. No IT infrastructure, no business. This is probably true of most back-office departments but the problem in IT is that you aren't perceived as being productive. The accounts department pays people's wages, the site services department puts out furniture, fixes broken things, etc but IT &quot;doesn't really do much except cause the computers to wrong from time to time&quot;. To my mind, all deparments are equally important - we're all on the same team.

I think I may have wandered off the original topic here There are some good points raised here though.

I guess I just agree that it is frustrating when clients ignore your advice.

Daren
Must think of a witty signature

 

[CajunCenturion]

I guess I just agree that it is frustrating when clients ignore your advice. I agree that its frustrating when your advice is not taken. But just because it wasn't taken does NOT mean that it was ignored. My point is that there may be other factors that led to the decision to take an alternative course of action. Do you always follow the advice of your stock broker? Do you think your stock broker is going to drop you as client because you don't always take their advice?

DarenNM - I think its admirable that you take responsibilty as a consultant seriously, and so do I. Like you, I do take it personnally when my advice is not good, but I do not take it personnally when my advice is not followed. Whether or not I agree with the decision, I give my client/customer the credit for deciding what he or she believes is in the best interests of the business. I doubt that you'll ever lose a lawsuit for bad advice, if that advice were NOT taken.

I agree IT is a fundamental part of the enterprise, as are all of the other departments. It would be a mistake to assume that any department is any more or less important than any other. All are necessary. But to the CEO, the goal is to maximize profits, and that means making tradeoffs. We can't always get what we want. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[DarenNM]

just because it wasn't taken does NOT mean that it was ignored

That's a good point actually CajunCenturion. You've brought to the top of my mental &quot;stack&quot; the fact that I don't mind so much if my advice isn't followed if I know it has been considered. I guess where it is annoying is when I can see that it has been dismissed out of hand.

I'm suddenly feeling very enlightened!
Must think of a witty signature

 

[Steve101]

This thread is simply brilliant, and offers some really good insights to inter-personal relationships, and how we do and don't cope with a changing world.

I have been involved with IT now for close to 30 years or so, and have noticed a steady, but accelerating decline in the general respect that the IT industry and its workers get from the industry users. There are lots and lots of reasons for this, many of them are legitimate. Here are some:

o As an industry, we were primadonas for a long time. Arrogance did abound, even if it did (sometimes, but not always) result from technical competence. Nowadays, this is expected as a minumum. If its not present, someone else will provide it.

o The bubble finally burst with the dot com collapse. This &quot;revalued&quot; all of our collective and individual worths.

o There are still too many &quot;cowboys&quot; in our industry. These individuals are dangerous in that they can spoil our &quot;collective reputation&quot;.

o The other day, at a wedding, when asked what I do, I responded that I was a computer programmer. I was talking to a surgeon. His response was interesting (but not atypical). He said: &quot;but are'nt you worried about all of the kids now who can programme, who can do your job&quot;. No I stated, I was'nt worried, I'd never felt threatened by a kid who could display my level of accumulated business experience or acquired &quot;wisdom&quot;. (I've run my own IT consulting business now for a good few years, but I'm very happy to call myself a computer programmer, because I'm a professional programmer, and I know what that means, and what its worth).

o Unfortunately there are no clear definitions about what constitutes an IT professional. In spite of formal qualifications and certification, none of these really seem to work. Someone who has attended a one week course in Visual Basic might for example call him/herself a programmer (and might in fact develop into a good one).

How do I personally cope with the change. Here are a few of my simple strategies:

o Recognise the situation, and don't get stressed out by it. We are now an &quot;office commodity&quot;, paid to do a job; no more and no less. Thats my attitude. If you get more; thats a bonus (ie. start off with a reasonable expectation, and hope to be surprised).

o Find work in an environment where there is a genuine requirement, and you will be working with a user who has a genuine vested interest in having his IT problem solved. If you can do this, then you can hopefully avoid the destructive politics, which can as surely sabotage a project, as a bad technical solution.

o Work with small teams that you respect and trust, on small to medium sized projects, where you can have some influence and control.

o Cultivate professional relationships with your users, so that they'll keep coming back to you, because of your manner and competence.

Well, thats my 2c worth. It kinda works for me,
Steve Lewy
Solutions Developer
steve@lewycomputing.com.au
(dont cut corners or you'll go round in circles)

 

[DarenNM]

Some nice points there Steve - definitely worth 2c! ;-)
Must think of a witty signature

 

[DonQuichote]

Having read this thread, I think I can only point out that communication is and remains important.

The client knows some of his own business processes and wants it automated. But knows nothing of programming.

The programmer knows everything of programming, but nothing of the client' business process.

This is very 'black and white' put, but it is usually true to a large extend. So the only way the client can get a satisfiable program is for the two to get together.

One of the beauties of getting together is that the two can both learn: The client can get to know his process better and the programmer can encounter solutions he never thought of...

Best regards

 

[mikeracicot]

As long as the customer (nice word...customer) is paying your salary, then you MUST do what they ask. Just document everything. If you don't like the constant badgering from the clients then maybe you are in the wrong career path? Mike Racicot
Ciber, Inc.
Sr. Quality Assurance Analyst