Vista DRM

[pmonett]

In a previous thread there was a lot of discussion around DRM and content protection, and one participant specifically asked for "proof" concerning what it does.
Well Microsoft not being very helpful on the subject, at the time there was none, so the discussion ended up in the pro-MS vs anti-MS, and we all know how useful that is.
Now, however, a voice has made itself heard : that of Mr. Peter Gutmann, apparently a professor in New Zealand. Go here to read his analysis (please do, it is quite enlightning !).

Having read this article, I will summarize it thusly :
- Vista overtly disables all non-compliant interfaces when playing "protected" content, meaning S/PDIF and component video, as well as TOSlink and coax output for audio
- Vista covertly degrades the signal in a dynamic manner, so you'll never know if the fuzzyness you see on your high-end HD screen is due to a bug or to Vista content management doing its job
- the implication of content protection is that driver specifications are kept to a minmum, ensuring that open-source drivers will be few and far between
- another driver problem is that the Hardware Functionality Scan (HFS) prevents using the Unified driver models because it requires the driver to be specifically certified for the hardware - so it's back to one driver per model of graphics card or sound card
- Microsoft can apparently revoke the useability of a driver or device if it decides to, which means that all users of said element will be left in the cold until a replacement is available (at cost ?)
- Vista can now be TILTed, just like the pinball machines of old. Apparently, in order to detect hardware tampering, Vista now tracks glitches in results, buffers and signals, and when enough happen, guess what you see ?

There's more in the analysis, but I'll stop there.
Now I'm sure that some people will find perfectly reasonable arguments to justify all the above, but I'm interested in objective opinions. Doesn't all this open wide avenues for hacking ? And please don't answer that it doesn't matter because Vista "is more secure" - let's see just how secure Vista actually is in the field before giving it the laurels.
I think this whole DRM scheme will be a useability disaster. The worst case scenario would be a hacker finding out how to hijack the revocation process and actually using it.

What do you think ?

Pascal.


I've got nothing to hide, and I'd very much like to keep that away from prying eyes.

 

[dilettante]

So if the equipment, software, and media are all legit who's ox is gored here exactly? I agree "fair use" is impacted here as in many other quarters today, but basically if you buy legit consumer products and aren't a pirate what's the real issue?

I guess I'm not that addicted to Hollycrack myself. People should have put up more of a fuss about region restriction long ago instead of chortling to themselves about the workaround hacks they'd found.

 

[pmonett]

if you buy legit consumer products and aren't a pirate what's the real issue

Sorry, but are you aware of what this DRM infection is doing ? Do you find normal to legally buy an HD DVD reader that is sold with a film (I suppose legally as well, but maybe I'm gullible) and not be able to read the film sold with the reader ?

The whole issue with the current version of DRM that Hollywood & Co are forcing onto us is just that : be honest and you risk being screwed. Hand over your hard-earned cash and find yourself with product that is unuseable, or viewable in "downgraded" DVD-quality.

The pirates have it better, apparently. They don't pay, and their films are DRM-ripped so they Play For Sure (tm) in HD quality. Something in this situation is NOT right.

In any case, I most certainly agree with your remark on region restriction. Especially now that my newest Sony DVD HDD system is not unlockable. I might have to end up ripping my legally-bought Zone 1 films to remove the zone requirement in order to view them. Hey, doesn't that make me a pirate ? Thanks, Sony and Hollywood. You really make my "entertainment" easy and comfortable.

Pascal.


I've got nothing to hide, and I'd very much like to keep that away from prying eyes.

 

[Sympology]

if you buy legit consumer products and aren't a pirate what's the real issue"


Err sorry but not true, I've bought a couple od "CD's" over time that have had some sort of copy protection, mainly Sony and they refuse to by on my HiFi recorder.
So I bought legit and they don't work. Ironically enough if I hooked up my standard player and copied to the HiFI recorder over optical, then I get a pure copy without the restrictions, therefore making a mockery of the protection.
Either that or use a marker pen.

Copy protection is fine provided it works.

BTW according to Philips, who I discussed this with, any copy protected CD CAN NOT carry the Compact Disc Logo.



Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[tfg13]

Aren't you just using that copy you made for yourself? Isn't that allowed under the agreement? If so, I don't consider that pirating until you distribute that content, as I'm sure most lawyers would agree, but won't put those words in their mouths.

Anyway, back to the discussion, IMO, I don't think this is going away any time soon. Too much money to be made and at stake to let it die. I do have issues with the protection some of these companies are coming up with. Specifically, Sony and it's infamous root kit.

 

[Sympology]

tfg13

Part of the issue of DRM (not just Vista) is that it prevents you doing such things. For example you download a file from aTunes onto your pc. The think ooh I'd like this on my Lappy as well for when i'm out and about. Sorry, you have to pay again.
Where as CD, you just take and put in laptop. No problem.

Stu..

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[Welshbird]

In the UK it is still (officially at least) illegal to rip a copy of a CD legally purchased to play on an iPod.

It's also illegal to make a copy of a legally purchased CD to play in the car.

Daft. Just plain daft.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[Sympology]

Good new is Wilf the bigwigs have stated they won't bring action. Until they are skint, that is.
BTW by skint I mean earnings for CEO >£1m per year.

Stu..

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[pmonett]

And the wrestling match continues !

Indeed, Mr. Gutmann's piece was apparently important enough to elicit an official response from Microsoft. Obviously, Microsoft basically declared that all is well and it's not as bad as it seems. Obviously, Mr. Gutmann does not appreciate being taken for an idiot, and he posted his own response.

Still interested in finding out just how much MS is attempting to screw us ? Follow the links and forge your opinion.

Pascal.


I've got nothing to hide, and I'd very much like to keep that away from prying eyes.

 

[gbaughma]

....the need to provide robust protection from commercial content....

Ahh... if only it *was* protecting us from commercials. ;-)

I still think that Micro$oft has caved in to Hollywood.

Like I said.. I will not be switching to BluRay or HD-DVD any time soon. I will not be switching to Vista at all.

When M$ stops supporting XP Media Center (which is what I run now), I will use a Linux replacement, like Meedio or Freevo.



Just my 2¢
"Life gets mighty precious when there's less of it to waste." -Bonnie Raitt "Nick of Time"
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Sympology]

Of course wonder how many of these whinging buy from Apple, the worst offender of DRM.

Stu..

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[estate]

A Windows Vista Premium Ready PC includes at least:

* 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
* 1 GB of system memory.
* Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum), Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
* 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
* DVD-ROM Drive.
* Audio output capability.
* Internet access capability.

 

[gbaughma]

There's another sore spot.

It's getting to the point where internet is *demanded* to make Windows even work.

There're a lot of situations where internet isn't available, or desired, or affordable to some folks.



Just my 2¢
"Life gets mighty precious when there's less of it to waste." -Bonnie Raitt "Nick of Time"
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Glenn9999]

It's getting to the point where internet is *demanded* to make Windows even work.

That's a sore spot with a LOT of programs, I've noticed. See how many you run across, for example, that will try to connect you to the internet if you access the help function. Or (perhaps the most pernicious and worst thing), how many try to auto-update and nag you incessantly because there's no connection. Or even worse, I've had a program bring the system to a halt because it wasn't able to get an internet connection.

The need for the Internet to make most programs work is a nasty, pitiful thing indeed.

 

[benlinkknilneb]

I'll throw a couple pennies in the pot...

I started reading about Vista, learning many of the same things listed above, and it prompted my switch to Linux. Yeah, it's got problems, it's not nearly as easy for the average person to understand, but I can't see giving MS any more of my money. It's reached the point that I'm willing to give up the ability to go to the store, buy any game off the shelf, and have it run on my PC rather than pay to be harassed by Microsoft because I *might* have pirated my copy of something.

The OSS movement is for me. I don't like to be treated like a criminal.

Ben
The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't. - Douglas Adams

 

[Grenage]

Maybe not today, maybe no tomorrow; but if enough people do switch over, a lot more games will be released that run on Linux. Supply and demand.

Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[Opieo]

Gotta love the catch 22 of everyone using the OS because that is where the games are. =(
Dual booting for now it is!
And I heart Open Source Software, Open Office ForTheWin!

~
Give a man some fire, he will be warm for a day, Set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.

 

[dilettante]

It isn't that simple. In many cases it becomes a question of "Which Linux?"

Then "Which version?"

Then "GNOME or KDE or ...?"

Then "x86 or what hardware?"

Then ...?

?

 

[Grenage]

True, but it doesn't really make much difference what distro you get, and Gnome or KDE doesn't make much difference, either.

Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[Sympology]

I'm not going to move to Linux yet, I'm still not overly keen on it, still doesn't have that "polished" feel. However, it is moving on a steady pace. So maybe in a year or two I will, not because I'm anti MS, but I can't see the point of having a quad core operteon with 16tb of RAM and 100tb of HDD space, just to listen to music, browse the web and rip the odd cd / dvd.
Once I can take a bit of kit out of the box, chuck it in the dpc and way I go, then I'll be happy. Linux is getting there....

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[benlinkknilneb]

Have you tried Ubuntu, Stu?

http://www.ubuntu.com

It makes switching pretty darned easy. All you have to do is create a liveCD off the download and then you can either play by booting from the disk or you can install it on your HDD.

It comes with a lot of apps preinstalled for you... OpenOffice, Firefox, Gaim, Evolution (mail client). Even with only a rudimentary understanding of linux, you can make it work for you.

As for polished... install beryl and you've got plenty of "polish". On top of that, you can run beryl on older video hardware, unlike Vista's Aero. GIS for beryl/linux and tell me what you think of that.

Ben
The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't. - Douglas Adams