The rise and rise of KAZAA peer 2 peer file sharing. 6

[guestgulkan]

I was to say the least , mildly surprised to see KAZAA media desktop software being given away on a freebie CDROM by a reputable PC magazine here in the UK.

AFAIK there is only one purpose behined KAZAA and that is p2p file sharing, also known as piracy.

As someone who also dabbles in computer repair, I would say at least 50% of the computers I see have the shiny green KAZAA shortcut on their desktop.

Yet I hear nothing from the record/media companies about this KAZAA network - but they went after NAPSTER with extreme malice.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Some good background reading may be obtained thru the following two links

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

The full text of the US Copyright Law follows (it's big):

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Note that in Section 106 - the Law provides the author exclusive rights to do and to authorize a number of things of which reproduction is one of them, and distribution is another. Section 109 A further indicates that the owner of a particular copy may dispose of that particular copy, but nothing else.

You might also reference the BERNE CONVENTION FOR THE PROTECTION OF LITERARY AND ARTISTIC WORKS (International Copyright Convention) paying specific attention to Article 9, again providing the author the exslusive rights to the material.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/overview.html#10

In short, what this means is that no copy can be made, except for the fair use provision, without the written permission of the copyright owner.

What part of the logic do you not agree with?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cdogg]

More interesting reading for anyone interested:

http://www.digital-law-online.com/lpdi1.0/treatise17.html

It discusses the evolution of copyright and where it stood as of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. Archiving copies of software is obviously still questionable. But just like skiflyer touched on, the RIAA and others are not going to come after you for making a legit copy for yourself - the focus is primarily on distribution.

It does help to know what is legal and illegal nevertheless.

~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[skiflyer]

If you're saying it's unethical because it's illegal I get you.

Otherwise, if you're saying it's unethical to make a copy from your friends CD rather than your own when you also own the CD, I disagree.

I understand the rights of the artist and whatnot... but speaking functionally there is no difference. This is to the point that save the 3 minutes in the burner, no one whatsoever is capable of telling the difference between what happened. It's not just a matter of speaking functionally with a huge gap containing all sorts of maybes and could'ves and ways to damage to the artist in question.

So is it illegal, debatable, most likely yes. (It's fair use vs. the links you posted, the juries still out, in the long run it'll likely be declared illegal)

Is it unethical, you say yes, I say I don't think so.

-Rob

 

[CajunCenturion]

Yes, it is illegal. We all know that you do not have the right to reproduce copyrighted material without the permission of the author. The law is quite clear. Reproduction rights are the exclusive right of the author. (where author represents the owner of the copyright - which often in practice has been sold to the publisher, or in the music industry, sold from the artist to the record label). The law enumerates specific instances in which copying without the author's permission is allowed (exclusions), and also enumerates where reproduction (whole or in part) of a copyrighted work is permitted within the concept of fair use. I have yet to see anyone show where even making a backup or archival copy is permitted within either the exclusions or fair use provisions. Fair use is defined within the copyright law (Section 107). It's not a subjective judgement on our part as what we consider fair or not.

And purchasing a CD/DVD/book etc, is not a purchase of the copyright. You may own your instance of the item, but you do not own the copyright of material contained within, and thus are legally limited in what you can do with that material.

And I submit that to knowingly violate a law, even if you disagree with that law, is an unethical act.

That being said, I do make copies of my CD for backup purposes. It is illegal for me to do so and it is unethical for me to do.

We can certainly debate whether the law is in need of updating, and we can debate on what should be considered fair use, but as to debate what exists in the law would be at best, an academic exercise.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cdogg]

Well said Cajun!

OK, next topic!! This one expired several months ago...




~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[ADoozer]

um ok... so this thread has expired (and i admit i only read till about the 10th post!)

but...

i download albums of kazaa!!!!... i listen to them.. if i like them i go out and buy them! i also record all my music to my hard drive (my cd player is lame) and allow kazaa to distribute them! i dont consider myself a pirate... for example whats to stop me (or anyone) going down the library and renting a cd then copying it!!

secondly... is there going to be a witch hunt on CD writer manufacturers as well???

thirdly... how much does it actually cost to make an album (given the computer age we live in) (please dont try the intelectual rights thing on me... im a musician too)... it by no means justifys the 13-20 quid being charged for a CD!!

anyway ive forgot my point... but hope ive reactivated this thread!!



If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
The Great Date Debate Thread222-368305
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

or

http://www.filext.com

 

[greyted]

ADoozer,
There is nothing to stop you or other peope borrowing a cd from a library and copying it.
As a society we are all responsible for the future of morals and ethics.
Success can only be achieved if we teach each generation about higher ethical and moral values. If we all took your view of things and broke laws and rules that we do not like then society would soon break down with dire consequences for us all.

If you copy cd's then there is not a lot we can say to you.
Your ethics and morals are your own.

You should read all the posts before making comments like yours.
I don't know if you have reactivated this thread, I very much doubt it. More than likely get it flamed.

This could well be a wind up by you but I thought I would answer your post before it gets flamed.




Ted

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
(William James)

 

[ADoozer]

greyted: i never meant any offence (i think you misinterpreted my post)!!!

>ADoozer,
There is nothing to stop you or other peope borrowing a cd from a library and copying it.
As a society we are all responsible for the future of morals and ethics.

i never said i did that... out of context.....

>If we all took your view of things and broke laws and rules that we do not like then society would soon break down with dire consequences for us all

again... context... im not breaking any laws... it is not illegal to copy CDs you own (see article on GameCopyWorld.com... will find it when i get round to it and post!!!)

i was just stating my point of view!! i believe that is what this forum is about!!

i believe that if you want to go after the p2p folk youve also gotta crack down on the (legal) companies that make piracy possible!!

you may not believe this but i am very moral and extremely ethical!!

i am also conscious about the software i produce (feel free to check my posts about software security)

i am also against the ridiculous prices charged by music houses (or whatever they call themselves now)

>If you copy cd's then there is not a lot we can say to you.
Your ethics and morals are your own.

i never said that!!! again out of context!!! i said i copy CDs i own (paid for) to my hard drive!!!

on a parting note... i will read all the posts!!

ps: its not a wind up. i dont mind a flaming... but i will say what i think!!!

(greyted: u are a valued member of tek tips. much respect dont get me wrong)

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A General Guide To Excel in VB FAQ222-3383
The Great Date Debate Thread222-368305
File Formats Galore @

http://www.wotsit.org

or

http://www.filext.com

 

[greyted]

Hi ADoozer,
No offence was taken; none meant either.

Guess I should have prefixed the library question with for example, as did you, it was not meant to be an accusation against you.

It is not illegal to copy cd's you own if it is for your personal use.

You are correct in that this fora allows you to state your point of view, long may it remain so.

It is a good point you raise on p2p folk.

Have no reason to doubt your integrity and do believe you are moral and extremely ethical.

Will check out your software posts as you suggest but as I stated above I have no problems with your ethics or morals.

There are no arguments from me with your answer to cd prices, people must pay otherwise the cd's would not sell.
Unless of course there is a cartel.

Fully accept this not a wind up and apologise unreservedly to you.

You are fully entitled to exactly what you think, again that is free speech and long may it continue.

Thanks for the kind valued member comment; I do have respect for you and all TT members.

At least I helped you reativate this thread for one more post.

Hope this post makes some sense and is readable as I have a Hay-fever problem and it is rather difficult to see what I am typing.
Good luck






Ted

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
(William James)