The rise and rise of KAZAA peer 2 peer file sharing. 6

[guestgulkan]

I was to say the least , mildly surprised to see KAZAA media desktop software being given away on a freebie CDROM by a reputable PC magazine here in the UK.

AFAIK there is only one purpose behined KAZAA and that is p2p file sharing, also known as piracy.

As someone who also dabbles in computer repair, I would say at least 50% of the computers I see have the shiny green KAZAA shortcut on their desktop.

Yet I hear nothing from the record/media companies about this KAZAA network - but they went after NAPSTER with extreme malice.

 

[xutopia]

I give a star to CDOG for his good points and articles.

I tend to agree with CDOG. I think many artists aren't feeling threathened by people downloading their songs. Heck most bands that are just starting out give away their songs for free on their web sites!!

http://www.scottandrew.com/

http://www.dichotic.com/index2.html

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/87/utopik.html

Most artists don't care if they don't make the millions, they're happy when people love their music.

The problem is people that look good and have an alright voice are siliconed to look good and propulsed by marketing agencies to make as much money as possible in as short a time frame as possible (Yes I am talking of Britney Spears and the like).

Have you ever wondered why there aren't any ugly people singing? Do you really think there are no ugly people out there that can sing better than Shakira? Well there are! In plenty of bars and pubs in your downtown area there are average looking people like you and me with great talent making a few bucks and giving their CDs away for free. These people are happy there are such things as Kazaa because they get heard and that is what matters!

File sharing is not illegal in any country. What is illegal is downloading things that big corporations made laws so you wouldn't be allowed to download.

I used Napster way back when to download Open source software and documentation as well as free (and I mean that free music of quality that doesn't smell like Coke, Pepsi or Nike). So yes I am pissed at the RIAA trying to do anything in their power to monopolise the means by which I get my music. I want to be able for Scott Andrew the Walkingbirds to blast in my speakers wherever I am in the world and so does he! Peer to peer allows him to do that without barriers. Sure everyone could just have web sites you'd say! Well the web's best way to share files today is through Kazaa! It's fast, efficient and allows me to share as well!

It's time the Music industry with it's record profits stop acting like they are the victim of piracy. Every time they raise the price of a CD people are encouraged to steal a song or two so why not drop the prices a bit so that they are more affordable and people actually pay for listening to crappy stuff like Eminem (I would pay people to shut the blow the radio up if it was all we had on there!).

Thing is the music industry raise their prices drastically. In 1990 the price of a tape was between 8-11$. When the CD came out they raise the prices to 13-15$. It seems to me somewhwere along the line we are being cheated.

If you want to read more on my opinions regarding this issue and why I think Peer to Peer is not theft then read this article :

http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html

On another note if anyone tells me why it should be illegal for me to use Kazaa to download free songs and funny home made amateur videos then please explain it to me. I pay my internet bill every month. Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[guestgulkan]

But why can't musicians, the RIAA, film makers etc.. see what what the rest of us see in that:
The internet is the future for ditribution of anything (especially music, video and text) that can be reduced to a series of ones and zero's
So IMO they should learn how to use this medium rather than fight it!
They will lose...

 

[CajunCenturion]

xutopia --> File sharing is not illegal in any country. I suggest that you familarize yourself with copyright law before making such broad statements, especially when such statements are simply not true. File sharing is an infringment of copyright law unless you have permission to freely distribute that file. File sharing not only applies to music, but also to proprietary software as well. Even if you've purchased a piece of software, that doesn't mean you have the right to give it away. And music is the same, even if you've purchased the music, that doesn't mean you've got the right to give it away.

I too tend to agree that the artists are not overly concerned about music downloads because it does not have that much effect on their income. But you have to remember, the music does not belong to the artist, any more than a book belongs to its author (esp when you consider that often, the performer is not the composer anyway). Ownership, and copyright protection rests with the publisher.

And please understand that I too agree that the RIAA is ripping consumers off with their pricing. I am not a fan of the RIAA. But my feelings towards the RIAA do not change the law. And although I do not like it (or even care about it), any more that you, or anyone else, the RIAA is a victim of piracy. Just because I don't feel sorry for them, does not make them less of a victim.

The use of Kazaa is not illegal, and this has nothing to do with you paying your Internet bill. As an analogy, paying club membership dues allows you to take advantages of the services that the club offers. It does not, however, mean that those services are free just because you're a member. Paying your internet bill means that you have access to the internet, it does not mean that everything the internet has to offer is free.

With respect to peer-to-peer file sharing: Downloading free music is legal.
Downloading copyrighted music is illegal.
It's the owner of the copyright that determines what is legal and is not with respect to distrubution of their asset. Putting it another way - downloading is a method of distribution, just a guestgulkan has stated, but its not a circumvention of end-user licensing. Just because something can be downloaded, does not mean that it is free. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BigBadDave]

CajunCenturion --> especially when such statements are simply not true. I suggest you actually read that statement before making an ass of yourself. File sharing in its entirety is not illegal! Only sharing files you don't own the copyright to and/or have the right to share.

Kazaa rocks! Regards
David Byng

http://www.byngdesigns.co.uk

davidbyng@hotmail.com

 

[CajunCenturion]

Now Dave, for a statement to be true, it must always be true. Since there are files which you do not have the right to share, then by defintion, the statement File sharing is not illegal in any country, is false because there are situations in which the statement is false. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[cdogg]

David,
If you read the next line in CajunCenturion's post, then you'd see that both of you are making the same point.

Cajun said:
File sharing is an infringment of copyright law unless you have permission to freely distribute that file

You said:
File sharing in its entirety is not illegal! Only sharing files you don't own the copyright to and/or have the right to share

The two statements sound identical to me. So, I'm not so sure where the argument lies...


xutopia,
I agree with many of your points against the music industry. Hopefully, some kind of compromise can be reached to give more authority to people on the internet to download/listen to copyrighted music. A profitable industry awaits RIAA if they can find a cheap, legal way to provide music online but preserve their CD sales at the same time.

However, CajunCenturion does bring us back down to reality. The medium used to share copyrighted music, Kazaa in this case, isn't necessarily the entity responsible for illegal activities. The users of that medium are. Unless you own the copyright or have permission to distribute, you are not even allowed to make a copy of your music let alone share it over the internet. As much as I would like that to change, that's how it stands now. The punishment for such a crime is what varies from country to country.

Hope that helps, ~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

Thank you cdogg. I would also like to point out that there is quite a difference between the statement xutopia made: File sharing is not illegal in any country., and the statement BigBadDave attributed to him: File sharing in its entirety is not illegal!. These are in fact two different statements, one being true, and the other being false. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

Back to the original subject, to my understanding, one of the things that got Napster into trouble was the fact they Napster was building its own database of who had what files.

I've not used Kazaa, but I have used Morpheus, and in the case of Morpheus (and I think its the same with Kazaa), they are only providing a method by which users can share files. AFAIK, Morpheus has no control, nor keeps any records of who is sharing what, and the onus of properly respecting various copyrights and other legalities is entirely between the users. Providing the medium for exchange is not illegal, any more than the gun manufacturer has legal liability. Its the individual that breaks the law by improperly using the medium.

The fact that Napster was building a database keeping track of who had what files, and was using that information as part of the sharing process placed Napster over the line, thusly exposing themselves to legal actions.

Not that all/most/some of us have not done it at one time or another, but when you download a copyrighted MP3, you are taking something that does not belong too you. When you make a copyrighted MP3 available for download, you're exposing that which does not belong to you.

I would also like to point out, and this is not intended as a defense of the RIAA in any way, shape, fashion, or form. The executives of the RIAA membership are raking in the money, just as executives of other larger corporations. But there are also lots and lots of workers within the RIAA, some even in IT, who are pulling down only reasonable salaries, some making only minimum wage, and are living normal day to day lives just as most of us are. These jobs are dependant on the revenues of the RIAA membership as well. Lets keep things in perspective, in that its the executives of the RIAA membership that are taking an inordinate slice of the pie, and not the rank and file and the RIAA membership employees. Its the rank and file employees who will be the first to take the hit if the RIAA revenues decline. Again, I am NOT trying to defend the RIAA, but rather, bring to light more of the total picture. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sleipnir214]

On a separate but related ethical note, is this the same Kazaa that installs some really agressive spyware on your system? Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[manarth]

oh yes, the spyware comes free, the only cost is your privacy

it's also the same Kazaa that spawns hundreds of calls to tech support and dozens of postings to sites like this! <marc>[ul]help us help![li]please provide feedback on what works / doesn't[/li][li]not sure where to start? click here: faq581-3339[/li][/sup][/ul][/sup]

 

[xutopia]

Cajun,

What is wrong with your assertion is that file sharing is illegal because some people share copyrighted material. That is like telling me that driving is illegal because some people go through red lights. Get BigBadDave's drift?

File sharing is not illegal at all. The act itself isn't like murdering someone. You do not hurt anyone by sharing files. What is illegal is distributing files/software/music that are copyrighted for which we do not have the rights.

So I reaffirm my point. File sharing is in essence a totally legal action, just like driving a car is legal.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[cdogg]

sleipnir214 & manarth,

That's why many people are discovering Kazaalite:

http://www.kazaalite.com/

It has been hacked and includes all the same features without the spyware components. It's not technically legal, I guess, but it's out there. The funny thing is that the site thrives off advertising (and of course Paypal donations which is understandable). ~cdogg

&quot;The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.&quot;
- A. Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

xutopia, There is nothing wrong with my assertion. You are quite correct, some file sharing is legal, and some file sharing is illegal. Because some file sharing is illegal, that by definition, and by the basic rules of logic make the statement File sharing is not illegal in any country. a false statement.

I understand your point, and I agree with you, as should be evidenced by my postings.
File sharing may be legal, and it also may be illegal. Therefore you cannot make a broad statement about the legality of file sharing, because the statement is insufficient from which to base a legal opinion.

When BigBadDave added the phase &quot;in its entirety&quot; and when in your last post, you added the phrase &quot;in essence&quot;, you both are changing the nature of the statement, in fact, no longer making it a broad sweeping statement, allowing for the existence of exceptions, and therefore it is now a correct and true statement. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[GDGarth]

I'll agree that file sharing is not illegal, but sharing copyrighted materials is.

If you think artists are overpaid, don't buy their products - but don't steal them, either.

Just because you think something's overpriced doesn't give you the right to steal it.

 

[bassguy]

I think you are forgetting it is not illegal to use Kazaa for downloading home videos that folks make.

As for the recording industry and Kazaa. If they were to make it easier to download Albums from them then there would be less people trading and violating copyright laws.

Also I think that there are movements towards integrated CD's by bands to give a value to owning the CD not just the music files.

just a few thoughts

Bassguy

 

[Kjonnnn]

Most artist don't get alot a money anyway, even the million sellers.

If what people want happens (all music if free to get), will artists be getting ANY money?

Will artist be able to do (recorded) music as a full time job?

 

[cdogg]

I don't think the main question is whether all music should be free to share and download. That obviously wouldn't be fair to any artist. Instead, the industry needs to adopt the technology and market singles, tracks, and albums online for a reasonably small fee. Now, that's the artist and record label's right to decide if they want to do that or not. I'm not saying they should be punished in any way. However, piracy is sure to continue until CD prices drop.

Of course, there are hundreds of different possible solutions. I don't think that a lot of the big name artists rely solely on CD sales. Instead, they have many sources of income: advertising, concert ticket sales, televised appearances, etc.

Being a well-known artist in the music industry will always be profitable...the question is how profitable!!


~cdogg

&quot;The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.&quot;
- A. Einstein

 

[skiflyer]

Well, the other thing conveniently absent in almost all venues of this conversation...

it's insanely cheap to distribute music over the internet. Not free, but cheap... it's natural the price should come down. But it won't, the industry appears to want to hold prices steady or raise them (i.e. raise in price from cassette to CD, even though CD's are cheaper to produce than cassettes) when a knew technology comes out, going after peoples desire rather than basing a cost from their production costs.

Seems clear they need to consider MP3 distribution, it's just that widespread. Personally I'd pay to get clear crisp MP3's from the studios. I hate downloading something to find out it's on someone's 56k modem, or has electronic skips in the middle or some other such nonsense. However, I won't pay as much as a CD, I'm not getting all the cover art and such. And I want some kind of tracking such that if my harddrive crashes I can re-download my music.

-Rob

 

[cdogg]

Rob,
I'll second that! Professionally encoded MP3's from a reliable source would be something to pay for...


~cdogg

&quot;The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.&quot;
- A. Einstein

 

[guestgulkan]

I can't see what the problem is.
I have given this some thought this over and what I see is this:

There is usenet - comprising news servers.
So for music and video we would have music/vide servers.
We all have ISP's and all ISPs carry news servers - so they will also now have music/video server(s) as well.

We all have to logon and be authenticated to our ISP's to use the ISP services.
So our ISP's or some third party give us a bit of freebie software which we connect and logon and browse the music/video server.
We see the song/video we want, we buy it and the ISP add the price to our monthly bill.
We have bought the song/video so it is ours for life - the ISP keeps track of what song we are entitled to (bought).
We download it and play it as req'd.
If our computer is sold/broken/etc.. - no problem - - we just download it again when ready.

Easy