The future may be bright- but I miss the good old days! 18

[guestgulkan]

Take me back to the 1980's when engineers really were engineers.
Computers were new, and you could still go down to
Maplins for a packet of discrete electronic components.
Assembly language was the thing
Ethernet? About 10 people the world knew what that was.
It was like the pioneering days of the old west.

Now, engineers have been reduced to simple 'black box' changers and any half-wit can become an engineer or programmer.

I suppose it's all in the name of progress, but for me the fun and personal job satisfaction has gone.

 

[Morsing]

The price of computers has fell down sharply the last 20 years

I've bought computers and equipment for the last ten years and the prices hasn't fallen one bit. Sure you can get supermarket computer that is a bit cheaper but they're crap. For the last ten years the price for a basic computer has been pretty steady at 6-700 pounds.

Cheers

Henrik Morsing
Certified AIX 4.3 Systems Administration
& p690 Technical Support

 

[strongm]

But what you are getting for that 6-700 pounds has changed...

 

[svanels]

My first computer was a 4.77 mhz, with cga monitor, 2 x 3.5" floppy and a keyboard. No hard drive (it was called a winchester) and no mouse, for US $1200. The printer (epson lx-80) was another $300.
Compare that to nowadays machines and you still say that prices have not fallen?

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[gunthnp]

of course they have fallen come on in 1985 the avg mark up on a pc at the retail end was 35- 50 pionts now days 5 pionts is large

a harddirve on my 1st computer was $1200 for five megs

a 256k upgrade was $200


gunthnp
If you like my tip please mark it.

 

[Morsing]

Since '93 prices haven't fallen. Worst part is that my new 1500 pound laptop is slower compared to my computer in 1993 if you compare it *with* the included OS!!

Oh boy, am I going the get it for that statement ;-)

Cheers

Henrik Morsing
Certified AIX 4.3 Systems Administration
& p690 Technical Support

 

[Stevehewitt]

I think this is an economical issue. Although the face sales price for IT equipment hasn't really changed, people have more free income to spend on "luxury" items such as PC's, SOHO's, which is why there is more sales than previously - people now HAVE $1000 to spend on a PC, when 5 - 10 years ago $1000 was worth more to people.

Steve Hewitt

 

[strongm]

Maybe I'm missing something in the odd 'prices haven't really changed' argument. If 10 years ago I could buy 1 chocolate brownie for 1 dollar and today I still have to spend a dollar but get 25 chocolate brownies for my money then surely it is clear that the price of chocolate brownies has come down.

 

[Morsing]

You're right but if I bought a 'perfectly good usable computer' for X amount of money ten years ago and I still have to pay X amount of money for a 'perfectly good usable computer' today, then I don't see any difference.
To me the computer is exactly the same.

1 brownie vs. 25 brownies isn't the same because the 25 brownies would last several hours ;-)

I don't know what 'extras' you get when you buy computers these days?? They do the same job and only marginally faster.

Cheers

Henrik Morsing
Certified AIX 4.3 Systems Administration
& p690 Technical Support

 

[CajunCenturion]

But it's not the same computer. Compare the specs - processor speed, RAM, disk space, graphics relsolution, real-estate footprint, scalabililty, port availability, etc etc

How about this analogy. (Oh how I wish it were true, but these prices have not gone down)

Suppose you bought a Ford Pinto (perfectly good usable car) 10 years ago for 10K, and today you bought a Lambrigini (perfectly good usable car) for 10K. Hey the price of cars has not gone down. After all, a car is a car.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[strongm]

OK, let's change the analgy a little - but still use food.

Say that 10 years ago I was single. 10 years ago it cost me a dollar to buy enough food to keep me alive for a day.

5 years ago I got married. But, because food had got cheaper, it still cost a dollar to but us both enough food to keep us alive for a day.

In the last few years I've had three or four kids. But today it still only costs me 1 dollar to keep the whole family alive. Personally, I don't seem to be getting that much more out of it. Personally, I'm still only getting enough food to keep myself alive. Personally I'm still spending the same dollar (ignoring inflation and all those other annoying economic things). But, in actual fact, that dollar is now keeping 5 or 6 people alive for a day.

Under those circumstances I'd sure as heck argue that food had got cheaper.

And computers are like that. Sure, the headline price of a midrange personal computer may not have appeared to change that much. Sure, 10 years ago I may have been able to do word processing, and today I can still do word processing (and not necessarily that much faster), but today's word processor does a LOT more than the one of 10 years ago.

 

[gunthnp]

do you guys have computer mags form 93 prices have fallen you could not even find a cheap computer for under $1000 till 98 and thats when margin came down to 5 pionts or less

pull out a computer magazine from 93 and look at the price they are still going down you can get a GOOD computer for a $1000 now which was not true in 95 or 98

gunthnp
If you like my tip please mark it.

 

[CubeE101]

MY FIRST LAPTOP (ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO) COST $2000...
BLACK (ACTUALLY BLUE) / WHITE (GREYISH) GRADIENT DISPLAY
MAX RESOLUTION WAS 640 X 400
NO FLOPPY DRIVE
NO CD/DVD ROM/BURNER
1 MEG OF HD SPACE
1 MEG RAM
286 PROCESSOR
NO BUILT IN MOUSE
NO BUILT IN SPEAKERS (BEEPER ONLY)
NO NETWORK PLUGIN
NO INFRARED
DOS INCLUDED ON ROM
NO USB/PS2 PORT

EVERYTHING YOU PUT ON THE COMPUTER YOU HAD TO TRANSFER FROM ANOTHER VIA LAPLINK & PARALLEL/SERIAL PORT

AND YOU STILL SAY PRICES HAVEN'T GONE DOWN???

CHECK

http://WWW.DELL.COM

BETTER YET... CLICK HERE...

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_inspn_3_inspn_8500.htm#tabtop

THAT INSPIRON IS (CURRENTLY) ONLY $1399
ALREADY $600 CHEAPER

HAS A BUILT IN GRAPHICS CARD...
ATI® MobilityTM RadeonTM 9000 video controller with 32 MB DDR video memory
Optional: NVIDIA® GeForceTM 4 4200 Go with 64 MB DDR video memory
(THAT IS 32 TO 64 TIMES THE MEMORY, JUST IN THE VIDEO CARD)

15.4 inch Wide-Aspect UltraSharpTM TFT Active Matrix displays in a choice of WXGA (1280x800), WSXGA+ (1680x1050), or WUXGA (1920x1200)
WHICH IS FAR BETTER THAN BLACK & WHITE

Standard: CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
Optional: 8x DVD ROM
Optional: 2x DVD+RW/+R

30, 40 or 60 GB Ultra ATA hard drive
(CAN YOU SAY... DUH... NO CONTEST)

Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 processor-M at 2, 2.2 or 2.4 GHz
On-die 512 KB cache (L2)
8 KB internal cache (L1)
400MHz external BUS frequency
Intel® 845MP Chipset

256 MB of 266MHz DDR SDRAM standard, upgradeable to 2 GB maximum
2 SoDIMM sockets, both are user-accessible

I/O Ports
IEEE 1394 integrated port (1394 cable sold separately)
9-pin serial connector
25-hole pin parallel connector
Serial infrared communications port (lrDA-1.1 compliant)
Audio jacks: Stereo headphones/speakers miniconnector (same as line-out), microphone miniconnector
15-pin monitor connector
2-USB (Universal Serial Bus) 2.0 compliant 4-pin connectors
S-Video for TV-Out for S-video, composite video, and S/PDIF (S-Video cable available - purchase online or from your salesperson)
Optional: Inspiron 8500 advanced port replicator

NOW TELL ME THE TECHNOLOGY HASN'T GOTTEN BETTER AND PRICES MUCH LOWER...

THE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY HAS GOTTEN BETTER WHICH HAS LED TO BETTER WAYS OF PRODUCING EQUIPMENT, WHICH IN TURN MAKES THE EQUIPMENT MORE AFFORDABLE, ALLOWING MORE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PURCHASE THE EQUIPMENT, WHICH BRINGS MORE MONEY BACK TO THE TECHNOLOGY, WHICH ENABLES EVEN MORE ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT...

TAKE A LOOK AT THE POCKET PCs, TABLET PCs, PORTABLE DISPLAYS (TOUCH SCREEN PANEL MONITORS, THAT USE WIRELESS NETWORKING TECHNOLOGY, WHERE YOU CAN REMOVE THE MONITOR AND ACCESS YOU COMPUTER FILES/INTERNET, ETC... FROM ANYWHERE IN THE HOUSE), AND THEY ARE ALL BECOMEING AFFORDABLE AS THE ABOVE CYCLE OF COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY CONTINUES TO RUN ITS COURSE...

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MY DELL AXIM X5 POCKET PC IS (BY ITSELF) A THOUSAND TIMES BETTER THAN THAT OLD LAPTOP, AND IS ABOUT 1/10 THE PRICE...

I MEAN, FOR REAL, THINK ABOUT THIS...
A TINY COMPUTER THAT YOU CAN SLIP IN YOUR POCKET, THAT CAN RUN 3D GAMES, WINDOWS, ACCESS THE INTERNET, BE USED AS A DIGITAL CAMERA, GPS SYSTEM, MP3 PLAYER, MOVIE PLAYER,... HAS A BUILT IN SPEAKER, FULL COLOR DISPLAY, 64 MEGS RAM, COMPACT FLASH EXPANSION ABILITY, TOUCH SCREEN,... JUST TO NAME A FEW OF THE FEATURES... MY OLD LAPTOP HAS NO CONTEST WITH THIS POCKET PC...

AND NOW THAT CELL PHONES ARE BECOMING COMPUTERS ALSO (FEATURE/SMART PHONES) PORTABLE COMPUTERS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME...

NOW THE FUTURE DOES LOOK PRETTY BRIGHT,
AND I DO (SOME WHAT) MISS THE GOOD OLE' DAYS...
BUT ALL IN ALL, I THINK A MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES HAVE BEEN FOR THE BETTER...

Have Fun, Be Young... Code BASIC
-Josh Stribling

http://cubee.topcities.com

 

[sleipnir214]

CubeE101:
You need to replace or repair your keyboard. Your shift key seems to be stuck.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[Stevehewitt]

LOL! I liked that! A Star!

Steve Hewitt

 

[strongm]

gunthnp

I have (or at least did have, until my wife told me I couldn't keep them any more) computer mags from about 1983/4

 

[gunthnp]

strongm:

same here and you can see that the avg price for equ from then till now has drop not talk speed or dpi just the price of a printer or monitor has come down

the price of a printer is less now
the price of a hard drive is less now
the price of memory is less now
the price of a complete computer less now

same is true since the mid 90's

but on how good the stuff was I still have mfm 225 cnd comador 64s (1982) that work great

and a still work odessey but I had to fix that

gunthnp

 

[CubeE101]

sleipnir214:
my bad...

I was @ work, I usually keep my CAPS on because all of the document I write at work are required to be in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS... I tend to not even notice I am typeing in all caps, I appologize for any "strain" I might have caused on anyone's eyes;-)

Anyways... a WORD is a word no matter what CaSe it is in...


Have Fun, Be Young... Code BASIC
-Josh Stribling

http://cubee.topcities.com

 

[mutant]

This was a curiously interesting thread.

Now for my 10 cents.

WinNT is not a descendent of OS/2; it is a descendent of VMS.

The non-NT based Windows OSs (since V1.0) continue to suffer from their genes being passed down from DOS (which was cloned/mutated from CP/M).

Each generation of the Microsoft OS, from DOS, Win 1.0, ...
to W2K and XP make features obsolete and perform functions in a new way. Upward compatibility isn't guaranteed.

For each of these Windows platforms (non-NT and NT), the hardware platform that they have been developed on still suffers from early design limitations. ISA, EISA, and PCI addresses; the 640k line, 1M line, and the limited address space of a 32-bit machine. Remember the 286: OS/2's pre-emptive multitasking required the MMU function to be simulated.

Unix is a pretty efficient design. It can be ported to various platforms: MAC, Intel, Mini, Mainframe and Supercomputer (Intel even used it for their supercomputer program). Proprietary minicomputer OSs like HP's MPE, DEC's VMS and others are nearly lost in history.

MVS, OS/390 or z/OS operates in 24-bit, 31-bit and 64-bit modes while providing backward compatibility. Assembly is still king for authorized OS services. This OS integrated Unix as Unix System Services and can be intertwined into MVS JCL. These machines also support Linux running in their own logical partition.

There are also OSs built upon imaginary machines. TAOS is one such OS. It initially was built to run on an imaginary 32-bit machine, extend to a 64-bit machine and has the ability to be extended to any size machine. The TAOS translator can be ported to any physical machine.

As for where IT is Going In The Next 5 Years? We can only hope that the Wintel platform is crushed by Lintel or Mac. In many ways, the IT profession is degraded by the sloppy products produced at Microslop. If the so called leader sets the standard to be piggy (large/slow), disease transmitting (virus/bugs), and proprietary - then, IT personnel will never be viewed as professional. In other words, engineers are expected to build bridges that support the weight and don't fall down, yet everyone accepts that desktop computers will fail and have bugs.

My final comment is: the mainframe has an excellent history of stability, backward compatibility, tight security, and flexibility. It was called the dinosaur in the late 80s, but in reality is the true heavy metal.

 

[Craig0201]

And engineers never make mistakes, do they.....Like the Millenium Bridge in London for example? Swayed so much it was closed in 3 days for over 12 months whilst they fixed it....

And engineers would never hide their failings, would they?....Like the engineers who knew of the problems found on the Millenium Bridge having built one in France a few years previous with the same problems.....

We live in a commercial environment, not some ideal world where you can take forever to develop a product. Hence projects have time limits and therefore software has bugs. Live with it. After all, you've never made a mistake, have you?

Craig

 

[Grenage]

Desktop Computer and network environment is ever changing and advancing. You can not expect it to be stable. If Linux were to become dominant, and a leader such as redhat emerged which changed a few things to set a standard across its platform....

Its a Vicious circle that will never end, leaders emerge and set standards and usually topple in some way eventually. Would we really want it any other way ?

Bridges have been around for a lot longer than computers!