the expense of certification accumulation 4

[drago762]

Add up all the time you spent studying for these certifications. Now add up all the time you spent taking the tests for these certifications.
Add in the casual discussions, techno chats and meetings.

Now multiply that by your current hourly rate.
Add all the money you spent on internet time, books, training courses, discusssiong groups, and user groups.

Thats how much in dollar terms you've spent.
Subtract this from your current yearly salary.

Have you truely made any money yet?

Ask yourself if you could have spent all this time doing other things like starting a side business, communication with your wife or girlfriend, enjoying a hobby, or relating to or raising children better.

Now consider the organisations who generate these certifications. You think its because businesses ask them to develop some sort of measuring stick to be able to prove your experience.

You think they're doing it because they want a good name in the industry?

Its a business opportunity. A money making endeavour. Do you think they do this for free?

They don't just have you fooled into some short term scheme. They've got you hooked for the long term. They've even got you selling the certification scheme for them. And convencing recent graduates it wil solve all their problems.

Why does it cost $600 a day for these courses. And $250 for the test. $125 for a book.

Now off I go to see when .NET certifications and courses will be available so I can get a job based on technology that changes so quickly I might as well become a Professional Certificant and study 50% of the time.

By the way did you know that M$ has now simplified their grading to either pass or not pass. So once I've got 5 certificants vieing for the same position I won't be able to tell which studied the hardest the night before and forgot the most the day after.

This is a money making rip off for short term benefits.
With a never ending cycle.

Reel 'em in. We've got another sucker hooked.

 

[carrr]

Um...so I should apply this same logic to the thirteen odd years and tens of thousands of dollars I spent working up to/through a doctorate? Darned if I've really made any money yet.

[sarcasm]Why did it cost $1600 a semester per class, and $xxx in fees, and then $150 for textbooks? Sounds like a money-making racket, doesn't it?[/b]

I think you're missing the EDUCATION that comes with all that wasted time and money. Whether one opts to get that education in a university, community college, cert program, or otherwise, is it right to degrade it?

Tired of waiting for an answer? Try asking better questions. See: faq222-2244

 

[mmorancbt]

I believe any education should be guided by a pragmatic need for the information provided. If you study is purely for the aquisition of certs, then I would imagine you would be bitter.

However, the choice is yours to take courses and pursue that route.

I have been in the industry since 1986 and have never been asked for a cert or degree. But I choose non-traditional paths into IT positions and contracts. I think the real problem lies with many technologist's perception that there is this mythical career path that goes something like this...

Cert or Degree
IT Department Jr. Staff
IT Department Mid-level Staff
IT Department Senior Staff
Etc.

That is just not the case.

Choose your certs or degrees programs/classes, based on your ability to learn, not on the acquisition of the paper. This means that boot camps - unless you are already strong in a related technology - are probably useless.

Just an idea:

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Musings:

http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[bol05]

drago762, are you certified in anything ?

 

[lgarner]

I think drago's mixing two different issues regarding certification and education.

Education costs mondy, time and effort. If you don't think that you need it, don't go to school.

Certifications are intended to provide some proof of subject mastery. I haven't seen an IT certification yet that required class attendance. Classes, not including bootcamps, are a good way to learn technology. They're not needed, however, if you have another way to learn or already possess the required knowledge.

Degrees indicate that you've successfully completed a required curriculum. Certificates make no such claim. They only indicate that at one time you successfully took one or more tests. Take them at face value, and don't pursue them if you don't need them.

 

[spamly]

Sigh... This topic seems to surface time and again.

If you didn't broaden your usable skills while pursuing the certification then you're wasting your time as well as your employers. If you did broaden your usable skills then you've actually got something there.

Don't ever get a cert if you just want to put the piece of paper up on your wall. If you are going to spend the time and money, learn something!

In theory, certifications are worthless. It is the appliable knowledge ideally learned through the certification process that employers want. Don't confuse the two; your employer certainly won't.

 

[mmorancbt]

Well said. I have been asked on many occasions, "How much is my cert worth?"

I typically say something about $.03 for the paper and another $.05 for the ink. But explain that they will have a hard time selling on the open market.

Of course I know what they are asking and I explain in terms similar to spamly's above.

I have been speaking for IT events the past few weeks with a few more the next few. This is mostly instructors and program directors for colleges and universities. Their question involves how to prepare their students for real!

The question is largely one of the value you can bring your employer/client with the application of the skills you contain, your ability to understand their business challenges, and your effectiveness at communicating with various levels of users, management, and IT personal.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Musings:

http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[kHz]

spamly is right - sigh!

Anyway -

I understand what drago762 is saying. SANS, for one, offers their tests for one (hundreds of dollars) fee without taking their courses (read pay), yet they offer the same course for a fourth or less if you take a course from them.

Why would there be a difference in cost? The only factor is you paid them already. This is merely a money-making scheme. They also tout their curriculum and the practicum. Has anyone read some of those papers? A lot of those papers have a length in pages in single digits - with pictures.

I can relate what Matthew and spamly are saying about application of knowledge learned and a certification or course to real life. For a year-and-a-half (company switched from AIX to Solaris) one of my co-workers complains that he doesn't know Solaris. He says "I used to know what I was doing on AIX but I don't know Solaris." The company sent him to 3 classes on Solaris and he also wants a networking class but they won't send him. I went to one Solaris class because they kept telling me I had to go, even though it would be a waste of time (mostly it was). I learned everything about Solaris in the last 1.5 years by reading. I downloaded books from Sun and read them. I also have a FreeBSD box at home that I have worked on for a few years, and BSD and Solaris are closer than AIX and Solaris. He seems to want to take these classes and thinks he will then know what he is doing. It doesn't work that way.

What I am trying to say is that certifications and classes are not going to suddenly impart you with all this information to learn the subject.

 

[cyclegeek]

Ahhh, the old debate - To get certified or not to get certified.

The answers to that question go beyond a simple yes or no to the variety of people who ask it. As with most things in life, I think the benefits from participating in the education process are tied to the investment made in the process - in other words - you get out what you put in.

Most people would probably agree that certification is only a part of a person's professional makeup. I like what mmorancbt says about the value a person brings to an employer because that word encompasses a lot of different qualities and skill sets. Just being technically savvy isn't enough and likewise, a wealth of business world experience without technical ability doesn't cut it either. Even when you focus on the technical skills, the certification question is still open. Maybe you have 10 years programming or networking experience and no problems showing your encyclopaedic knowledge to employers - or maybe you only have a few years experience and your understanding is less than thorough. In any case, the question becomes, how much value does a certification contribute to the total value you present to an employer? There actually are companies that require certification, for instance HIP USA in New York, a large insurance company. If you really want to work there then regardless of experience or skill level, certification becomes very valuable. Maybe you have a bunch of years of good business and technology experience and you basically know your stuff. In that case certification may not have a lot of perceived value, but the job market for programmers is very hard right now and if you don't have a job you'll be inclined to think certification couldn't hurt.

The cost for certification can definitely be high, but in my opinion that's because companies are usually picking up the tab for training current employees. Do programmer mills mislead with punchy or alarmist marketing? Sure. Hey, buyer beware. But when you look at what other professionals spend each year on seminars, conferences, subscriptions and the like then continuing-IT-Education doesnt' seem that bad. My wife is an occupational therapist. Insurance, licensing and truly needed continuing education total at least $4,000 a year every year. Of course, almost all of that is tax deductible and the same applies to a member of the IT community who pays for their own training or materials.

If you don't want to get certified, then don't go thru the process because you won't get anything out of it. And employers who are interesed in certs aren't going to take your knowledge level at paper value because they still recognize that it's only one piece of the whole pie.

 

[drago762]

Mr. Moran,

Thanks for your reply. I've read your book and respect your views.

I wouldn't say that I'm following the traditional IT path. I've had 2 jobs over the past 7 years and both were "jack of all trades" positions. The company I work for now is relatively small. I wear many different hats at my job (system admin, network admin, programmer, database admin, project manager). If I were to certify in every one of these areas, it would take YEARS.

I'm no MCSE but there hasn't been a problem I've been unable to resolve in a timely fashion, Most solutions are easily found by doing a Google search. Even the MCSE's can't remember all that they've learned and have to look up answers to problems.

When I'm not dealing with tech support issues, I'm working on value-added software projects that benefit the company. If I'm wasting my off hours going after an MCSE, that's less time I that I have to learn skills that really make a difference. Who cares about the details about Microsoft Certificate Services?

Unless one is a specialist who deals ONLY with Windows problems (few jobs are like that), learning everything there is to know about Windows is a waste of time. All one really needs to learn are the main concepts and where to quickly find answers (I believe you covered this in your book).

Unless one is fascinated by Windows and certification accumulation is a hobby, the time spent studying for an MCSE would be better spent making money on the side or learning a more marketable skill. Would you agree?

 

[mmorancbt]

I would agree with that with this caveat.

My drive and personality allows me to create opportunity at a pretty dramatic rate. I have, for the most part of the past 12 years turned down work and been able to pick and choose the clients I work for.

There are some, however, who find confidence in the certification. I do not begrudge them this. My confidence is driven by the fact that I believe I can produce great solutions for my clients and then doing it.

It is true that many employeers "ask" for a cert in their job requirements. However, this is because going after a job in the traditional sense means meeting the employer at his least desirable place to find talent.

Bolles discussed this at length in What Color Is Your Parachute and it is as true today as it was 30 years ago.

Employers look for talent in this order
- Internally
- Known at external company
- Referred in by another manager
- Referred in by another employee
and finally, when all their desirable ways of finding talent are spent...
- create a want ad/job posting and go out to the unknown, high-risk, commodidized market.

Your objectives should be to place yourself in the upper category. This is a function of performance and networking. They go hand in hand.

The mis-nomer is, "It's not what you know but who you know." but I still believe my modified version, "It's not who you know but who knows you and knows what you know." is more critical.

You must have a thriving professional network and they must know the types of things you can do. That way, as they move around the professional landscape (job to job) when there is a need, you are the first person that comes to mind.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Musings:

http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[LNBruno]

Is being certified better than not being certified? Yes.

Does being certified mean you actually know how to do the job? No.

Does this make sense?

"What's so hard about programming? It's just typing!"

< M!ke >

 

[langleymass]

My MCSE was a complete waste of time. I wanted to both learn something and get the piece of paper. I was foolish enough to think the piece of paper might lead to more money.

 

[rn4it]

All certification does is state that you know the OS/application well. Know with that said, if I was hiring someone and they had their MCSE or CCNA etc, and a college diploma and that's it. I wouldn't hire them to take care of sensitive equipment. Nor would I if I was predomantly a unix shop. Now if they had a few years of real world work experience and a cert or two, then I'd take them more seriously. my 2 cents

 

[willir]

I have always done well with course work and academia, but as a single parent I have very little time to allow me to focus on certification programs.

Moreover, I am not fond of CBT since they are very flat. How do you ask a computer a question in the middle of a CBT? And as most of us know there is more than one way to accomplish a task.

Lastly, in my rant, I have worked with many certified people in the past, and many of them defer to me as a resource, or I am the one to resolve a problem.

If you are certfied, it means, at the very least...
- you know the IT world as presented by the vender
- you have been exposed to the content presented by the vender
- you are smart enough to read, digest and spit out answers

If you have some experience, the certification program may, and some times, may not help you do your job. For example, using the course work, you will know the steps to perform a task - build a server, configure a router, install / configure software. As your experience is increased, you will develop your own stratagies that may or may not follow your formal teaching, and you may develop short cuts. You will also develop skills to quickly and effeciently trouble shoot problems, and develop resolutions.

I feel the most important skills to learn with a certification, is to have a general grasp and scope of the technology, and where to go for resources. The importance of the actual procedural details may diminsh over time.

Alas, certifications beome old. This is the nature of IT. IT is always changing and evolving. As a product becomes or seems to become more successful, techs migrate / flock to the technology and the requried training.

From the vender's perspective, I surmise...
- certification makes the vender money
- an outflux of certified techs will promote their product
- it is the vender's best interest to make sure that their product is adequately supported

 

[lionelhill]

Well, would you go to a completely uncertified dentist? Even if he/she looked OK from the treatment they just gave your friend? Even if they said they'd been in the business since drilling holes in things for fun when they were a kid?

The problem isn't certification as such, it's the feeling that some people are selling certificates. It's the middle-ground between the obviously reputable colleges, and the obviously disreputable "buy a PhD from us" set-ups (who can probably also sell you a Lordship and title-deeds for a few square meters of Saturn).

 

[alexhu]

Well, would you go to a completely uncertified dentist? Even if he/she looked OK from the treatment they just gave your friend? Even if they said they'd been in the business since drilling holes in things for fun when they were a kid?

This is an unfair comparison - since when have any IT certifications included a practical element ?

Isn't that half the problem - certifications prove you can answer the questions, but not practically use the knowledge

Alex

 

[langleymass]

You must have a thriving professional network and they must know the types of things you can do. That way, as they move around the professional landscape (job to job) when there is a need, you are the first person that comes to mind."

Matthew Moran,

Okay, how do you get a "thriving professional network"?

I am finally beginning to think that networking may finally be going to pay off. Tomorrow, I am most likely going to meet the CEO of Whole Foods. It will certainly be about time I got a break.

 

[mmorancbt]

Langleymass,

Your professional network is built over time – in most cases. Unfortunately, we think about networking after the issue is critical – an impending job loss or when we are out of work.

Developing a network requires that you develop relationships with those outside your direct peer group. Even casual conversations with co-workers who work in different departments qualifies. So do friend we meet a church, sports leagues, our kid’s schools, non-profit/philanthropic groups, etc. In short, anywhere.

It is ongoing communication, passing information about the type of work you are doing and actively seeking their input – about what they are doing. Of particular importance is turning opportunity over to your network when you come across it. We come across more opportunity than we realize. Become known to your network as someone who can see an opportunity that matches other members.

This pays dividends down the road.

Communications can be as infrequently as every other month – or whenever appropriate. The key is that you are a familiar name – in some capacity – to those you choose to make part of your network.

The dynamics of professional networking is interesting. People move from job to job and different situations arise. As they do so, you sphere of exposure expands and moves with them. Suddenly, they are in a meeting – unknown to you – and a person they are meeting with says, “we really need someone who can x, y, and z.” Your acquaintance suddenly has your name pop into their head. “I think I know someone who could be a good fit.” Voila!

If you have failed to cultivate relationships with those from past employers and others you meet, you need to start. It certainly helps to be interested in people and what they do. That is something that is difficult to contrive.

Also, bad attitude, complaining, us versus them mentality, etc. will make people nervous about ever referring you to someone else. Even if they took part in the same bad attitude. The fact is, we don’t want to be known as the person who referred a troublemaker to someone else.

If you’ve burnt bridges at past employers, the same rule applies. Beware!!!

I hope that helps a little.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Musings:

http://matthewmoran.blogspot.com

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[lgarner]

alexhu: "This is an unfair comparison - since when have any IT certifications included a practical element ?"

CCIE
RHCE

Certifications need to be considered individually. You can't just say "I'm certified in IT", there are different levels in different specialties. Lumping them together is flattering to the weak but demeaning to the strong ones.