Software upgrade cost

[slapin]

Hi,
I cannot get a clear answer from VAR about software upgrade cost.
Does anybody know how much would it cost to upgrade an 3300 ICP from V6 to V7. I mean actual cost of software and obtaining a new options password in case if there are new features introduced in the new release such as SIP. And an estimated cost for upgrade from V7 to V8.
Thank you

 

[paterson]

For systems sold before September 2006, software upgrades will be free (for now). For systems sold after that date, Mitel will be charging a fee. Not sure what that cost is.

If you are upgrading from Rel 6 to 7, that would imply that you purchased the system a while ago and should not have to pay for the software.

That being said, while the software is free from Mitel, the labor for a tech to perform the upgrade MAY NOT be free. That would depend on your Dealer and the terms of any maintenance contract you may have. At my company, if the upgrade fixes a specific trouble you have and there is a maintenance contract, the upgrade is with free labor. If you just want the latest features, then the labor will be charged, usually at an OT rate due to most upgrades happening off hours.


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My Biggest problem is that I almost always believe what I tell myself.

 

[slapin]

Is there way to download ISO images from Mitel or third party sites as soon as it was free? I do all the upgrades in-house but our VAR charges annual fee for each version upgrade. From Mitel web site I cannot understand what kind of service should I purchase to be able to download software upgrades. Any experience?

 

[paterson]

The downloads for each product are available to anyone with a valid account for the Mitel On Line website. Typically, Mitel gives out this access to employees for Mitel dealers, such as techs and sales people. I have not specifically heard of Mitel granting access to customers, but that may be an option to you. You could always contact Mitel and see what they say. The other option would be to ask for the software from your dealer.

The problem with both options is that if you are not certified by Mitel on the product, you could put any waranty or maintenance from either Mitel or the Dealer in jeopardy.

The dealer is trying to make money on providing the upgrade service to you. There is nothing wrong with that, that is why they are in business.


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My Biggest problem is that I almost always believe what I tell myself.

 

[slapin]

Completely agreed there is nothing wrong with it. Dealer have to pay bills. But, as usual, there is a smart ass (myself) who disagree to pay big dollar for air. I do support network of 20 ICPs and more then 1000 people. All my questions to the Dealer endup calling Mitel and getting software upgrades or patches (there is no errors in the configs). I can pay small fee for downloading documentation and available software if someone has access to Mitel On-Line.

 

[kwbMitel]

There is registration available for End Users that require access to software updates and other services.

There is a nominal annual fee, but it is relatively low if you are a power user as you seem to be.

Mitel's website is

http://www.mitel.com.

All the info you need to register is there.

There is an island of opportunity in the middle of every difficulty.

Miss that though, and you're pretty much doomed!

 

[slapin]

Here is part of a letter from a VAR

"Mitel will release two same version software releases in the first quarter and one in the third quarter. If they experience issues they will provide patches. Typically new version such as 6.x - 7.x is released once per year.

The cost of each in version software release is $1,495.00 and the cost - typically to advance to the next step - i.e 6.x to 7.x is $2,895.00."

Does this sound correct?

 

[kwbMitel]

From Mitel's Website


BY ELECTRONICALLY REMOTELY DOWNLOADING A SUBRELEASE OF MITEL'S OPERATING SYSTEM SOFTWARE, VIA MITEL ON-LINE, AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER AGREES THAT SUCH SOFTWARE MAY ONLY BE COPIED FOR USE BY SAID RE-SELLER FOR THE EXCLUSIVE PURPOSE OF RUNNING ITS OWN END-USER CUSTOMERS' OPERATING SYSTEMS. AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER AGREES THAT IT IS REQUIRED TO PAY MITEL IN FULL FOR EACH AND EVERY APPROPRIATE USAGE OF THE UNDERLYING RELEASE, IN EACH AND EVERY SUCH INSTANCE IT HAS MADE A COPY FOR ITS END USERS' UTILIZATION, INCLUDING PAYMENT FOR ALL OPTIONAL FEATURES THAT HAVE BEEN ACTIVATED. RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES NOT TO OTHERWISE COPY (except for archival purposes as permitted by U.S. copyright law) SUCH SOFTWARE. FURTHERMORE, AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES NOT TO DECOMPILE, REVERSE ASSEMBLE, ANALYZE OR OTHERWISE EXAMINE FOR REVERSE ENGINEERING PURPOSES SUCH SOFTWARE OR ANY FIRMWARE IMPLEMENTATION THEREOF. RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES IT IS OBTAINING A NON-EXCLUSIVE LICENSE TO USE SAID SOFTWARE AND RE-SELLER AGREES NOT TO OTHERWISE EXECUTE, USE, COPY, ALTER OR MODIFY SUCH SOFTWARE OR TAKE ANY ACTION INCONSISTENT WITH THE EXCLUSIVE OWNERSHIP INTEREST OF MITEL WHATSOEVER. RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES THAT MITEL HAS COMPLETE COPYRIGHTED OWNERSHIP OF SUCH SOFTWARE AND RE-SELLER AGREES TO HONOR SUCH RIGHTS IN FULL. RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES THAT SUCH SOFTWARE IS LICENSED TO RE-SELLER SUBJECT TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DISCLAIMERS AND LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY AS DELINEATED IN THE THEN CURRENT MITEL PRODUCT WARRANTY AS PUBLISHED IN THE AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER AGREEMENT AND SUCH WARRANTY IS INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE HEREIN, IN HAEC VERBA. IF THE PURPOSE OF THIS DOWNLOAD, HOWEVER, IS TO OBTAIN A 'BUG FIX ONLY' RELEASE WITHOUT ANY NEW FEATURES, THEN THERE IS NO WARRANTY AND SUCH IS SIMPLY PROVIDED TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE ON AN 'AS IS/WHERE IS' BASIS WITH NO WARRANTY BUT SUCH IS NONETHELESS SUBJECT TO MITEL'S COPYRIGHTS AND THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE SOFTWARE LICENSE. ALL OPERATING SYSTEM SOFTWARE DOWNLOADED HEREBY SHALL BE DEEMED TO HAVE THE FOLLOWING THEREON " COPYRIGHT MITEL NETWORKS CORPORATION, 2004--ALL RIGHTS RESERVED". AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER ALSO AGREES THAT EACH AND EVERY INSTALLATION OF MITEL PRODUCT SHALL BE DIRECTLY SUPERVISED AND APPROVED BY A QUALIFIED TECHNICIAN CERTIFIED AS BEING COMPETENT TO WORK ON THAT PRODUCT AND THAT PARTICULAR SOFTWARE RELEASE BY MITEL. AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER AGREES THAT SUCH TECHNICIAN SHALL BE AN EMPLOYEE OF AN AUTHORIZED RE-SELLER AND NOT A SUB-CONTRACTOR UNLESS APPROVED IN ADVANCE, IN WRITING, BY MITEL.


There is an island of opportunity in the middle of every difficulty.
Miss that though, and you're pretty much doomed!

 

[slapin]

It doesn't answer to the main question. Let's assume that we run V6.1 installed by a VAR. Then we ask them to install V7.0 without activation of any new features and pay for labor and other fees associated with this task. Should the VAR pay to MITEL anything for this installation. Assuming that we comply with all requirements of the license.

 

[mitelman]

The VAR does not pay Mitel to upgrade you from 6.1 to 7 at this time. The amount they want to charge you would I guess only be labour. Different VARS obviously do different things, as quite often we upgrade larger customers for free because it is in our best interests, but smaller ones sometimes have to pay the couple hours overtime.

The big question is whether they want to charge you the 2800 for each site or that is the total cost for all sites.

 

[slapin]

Each...
And it pisses me off. And they charge labor. I'm fine with it but I want fair pricing and I want to pay for actual work. Besides that I can pass Mitel certification if they would allow me to do so. We are premier partner with Cisco, VoIP specialty and we sell Cisco. I did apply for VAR status but Mitel spoke to our re-seller and declined our application. Personaly I like Mitel ICP products. But it's extremaly hard to get any information or documents.

Thank you for an exact answer which I was looking for. Now I'm going to call Mitel directly.

 

[whykap]

Sounds like CISCO thinks you are good enough to sell CISCO but not MITEL.
Interesting...

 

[slapin]

Looks like that's why CISCO wins on the market. They opened for everybody who wants to learn stuff. And then CISCO can sell even crapiest products because everybody knows how to work with it. MITEL (or our VAR) plays strange game from old times. We don't live anymore in information vaccum.
BTW if someone would like to work with us in North Virginia, Washington DC area, you are welcome. Contact me directly at tvman_us at yahoo.com

 

[whykap]

So how come and you have a 200ICP but you are premier CISCO partner with IP TEL specialty?
Usually CISCO is not keen on stuff like that.
Just wondering...

 

[slapin]

20 ICPs. At the moment when we decided to go with VoIP for internal infrastructure CISCO couldn't give us everything from one box. MITEL 3300 was just ideal for us. It's all about business, nothing personal.

 

[MitelInMyBlood]

In my 20-yr association w/Mitel products, they have (until only recently) never been easy to do business with. With 99% of their products (both hardware & licenses) now available from places like Graybar, etc. I can pick up the phone and call in a verbal order for a new ICP, phones, licenses, etc. and have most, if not all, of it on my receiving dock within a matter of 2~3 days.

In the past I remember it taking weeks (literally) to write a P.O. (which Mitel insisted on) and get it through Mitel's archaic order processing system and then wait for piecemeal partial deliveries, historically incorrect MOSS sheets, etc. to come crawling in strapped to the belly of a mule. -and I am not exaggerating. Once I even was told I'd have to write a freakin' PO to purchase designation labels. Judas Priest!

So today it is much, much better, allowing us to provide the customer with a timely response to unplanned, last-minute requirements.

 

[TheMitelGuy]

Compare Mitel to Nortel or even Cisco for the order process... WOWIE! Mitel truly rocks when it comes to getting product, licenses or support. If you disagree, then you have only seen Mitel work.

Cisco = have to wait days for licensing
Cisco = their product is actually is crap. We have a customer with the system, and we maintain it as they couldn't find anyone that can work with it, that has any brains. Cisco's solution for everything is reboot.
Cisco = Programming a phone is 3x forms + a seporate system for voice mail.

Nortel = have to wait days/weeks/months for licensing...
Nortel = tech support sucks - major.
Nortel = BCM quality is crap. Phones (IP or TDM) are pretty good.

Mitel = Order licenses and download within 3 hrs
Mitel = Support is actually decent, although we rarely use it. The product is pretty easy to fix.
Mitel = Programming a phone is one form ~ including voice mail.

 

[slapin]

Guys, you all are resellers and service providers. I'm a freacking customer in this case. And I don't really need an on-site support and I will not call a reseller if I need to change ARS. I just want to purchase stuff and get a fair pricing.
I'm agree with TheMitelGuy, Cisco VoIP products are crappy. Cisco makes really good data network equipment but voice is not up to speed. And you have to wait for everything.

MITEL is pretty mature phone equipment manufacturer. But it's extremaly hard to get a documentstion for end-users. Let's say MITEL theory of resiliancy is not really easy and transparent from the first look. You got to know ideas in the background to configure it properly. And so far so on.

 

[TheMitelGuy]

CUSTOMER DOCUMENTATION:
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

http://edocs.mitel.com/UG/Index.html

As for installation documentation, you have every right to request it from your VAR. In fact, we usually leave it with the customer -> it's part of the licensing package (i.e. it comes in a sealed white envelope). Should be on a CD. If you don't have it, tell your VAR you are missing something you ordered (i.e. documentation package on CD).

I can't speak for your VAR, but I wouldn't be charging you for the software. I would however charge a fee to get you the software and to modify your AMC account. I would also charge you to install the software, if you didn't want to do it yourself.

Ps., you would not be able to upgrade.... why not? Well, in order to jump to the new software level (7.0+) you need access to the AMC to modify the customer profile. You could take the software and run it, but you need to relicense your 3300 during the upgrade. Without a license for 7.0, 7.1, etc. the upgrade software won't upgrade your switch. Thus, you need your VAR.

Just as an FYI TO EVERYONE, for manufactures that have gone to "openess" for their distribution model (i.e. Cisco) they only hurt themselves for short term profit. Avaya, Mitel and the smaller guys that have a "older model" of closed distribution tend to do better over a longer period of time. Cisco is going the way of Nortel and that's a mess. Sure it works for 3-5 years, but then the VARs loose out and the only profit being made is the manufacture.

 

[slapin]

TheMitelGuy,
Thank you all guys, now I've got the material to work with.
I understand that VARs trageting to sell services. But I'm trying to take care of my business. MITEL should be closer to a customer. Let's say, is there anywhere an official list of VARs for specific areas. How to find a reseller if I don't like to work with current one through MITEL instead of serching on the web. Calling a regional office is not an option they are a little bit careless and would talt to VARs only. Strange game, there is a custome but they don't care. Great products, but hard navigate in options because of lack of information. BTW GreyBar might be an option for us. Once again, contact me if interesting in getting our business.