Poor grammar limits your job choices

[chiph]

I helped man my company's booth at a local job fair the other week. We had this person come up and after listening to them speak for a few minutes, all I could think was "You may be the best in the world at what you do, but there's no way I'm going to put you in front of a customer"

Their grammar and diction was just horrible.

Chip H.


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If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[r937]

unless you were hiring this person as an english tutor, her speech matters little if she can sell whatever it is your company sells to the customers

i've heard sales pitches in perfect english that made me look for the nearest potted palm to vomit into, and i've heard sales pitches that just made me reach for my wallet

your call

r937.com | rudy.ca

 

[MallardVHS]

Chip,

No reasonable person could blame you. However, in this litigious society, some lazy lawyer could.

To speak plainly, employers should be able to count as an asset an applicant's speaking ability. If my customer demographic expects proper English, I'd fail them (and my company & its employees) by hiring a slang-talking unprofessional who'd drive off the very customers who keep us in business.

Yes, we MUST acknowledge that in too many cases race and income and "upbringing" play into this equation, and as difficult as those issues are, issues of immigration and language will remain even after them.

Question: is the issue best addressed by making the employer the subject of a lawsuit, or by tackling the real problems of poor language skills, etc.?

I don't pretend to know the answers, but I do think the issues should be discussed 'onestly, even if some of us Southerners are required to blush.

Don



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A really cool handle might mean you sleep-walked to the fridge.[/blue]

 

[PaulTEG]

Ax sez rudy rocks ...

common sense will always prevail, except for the .net msi install package fiasco, "yewah, I'm a believer ..."

Paul
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Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[CajunCenturion]

I agree that hiring a person with poor language skills, or one who is simply lazy with language usage, is doing the company a disservice. Perceptions and impressions go a long way.

I've heard sales pitches in perfect English that made me sick, but because of what was said, not how it was said. I've also discarded proposals because of how it was said. More often than not, a person who doesn't pay attention to the details in language also fails to pay attention to details in other areas.

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Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[kcbell]

Folks:

I read this forum with great interest. English WAS my second language years ago. Today, English is my first language because I pay attention to what I said and how I said it. It helps when I have to use it everyday!

I agree whole heartedly of what CajunCenturion especially: "a person who doesn't pay attention to the details in language also fails to pay attention to details in other areas.”

Therefore if you are a manager of someone, you can use this “yard stick” to gauge one’s performance!

Thanks!

I live to learn and learn to live!

 

[chiph]

No reasonable person could blame you. However, in this litigious society, some lazy lawyer could.

This is actually a danger point -- If I were to discriminate against someone because of their poor grammar (assuming a position which is not customer-facing), it could be interpreted as discrimination based on national origin (and that's a no-no). But if they are in a customer-facing position (aka Sales, Support, Consultant, etc), then this is likely to not be counted as discrimination in the same way that TV media personalities (news announcers, etc) must be attractive as part of the job description.

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OK, assume this was an applicant for a database administrator position. Not customer-facing, but yet a job where precision is important.

Is it still important to have good grammar, in order to prevent expensive misunderstandings?

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[PaulTEG]

yes, yes it is, IMO

Paul
------------------------------------
Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[Welshbird]

I would say it is important to use good grammer purely because not doing so reflects badly on the company.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[Remou]

What does the panel think about the prospects of a person who has good grammar but also has an accent with negative connotations?

 

[Welshbird]

Can you give us some examples Remou?



Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[sha76]

I'd say that over this side of the pond Scouse & Brummie are two people commonly have problems with. Personally, if an accent annoys me, or if I have preconceptions about people who speak with a certain accent then I am well aware that it's my problem & I have to get over it (although I do sometimes find that incredibly hard!).

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[Remou]

It is hard to think of a general example, as each region probably has its own particular prejudices. Isn't the Essex accent somewhat unloved in certain regions of the UK?

 

[RCorrigan]

The Birmingham / West Midlands / Dudley / Wolverhampton accent was, several years ago, voted as being the "Stupidest" in the UK !!!!
This from an area where a "Kipper Tie" is something that was worn with a suit in the 70's and a "Cup of Tea" is something that you drink, but both are pronounced the same !!!!

I personally think that an accent can be "got over" by the listener as long as the content is correct, but if they're, so, like, totally wack, it would wreck my buzz in a minute !!!!!

<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[Lunatic]

Chiph

First, grammar is not a protected status in the USA (can't say about other places). So techinically it is not discrimination and you can't be sued for it (Race, Gender, age, reglion, and in some cases sexual orientation - but the last is a state/local, not Federal, protection).

However, as has been poined out (I think, as I just skimmed), someone may try to piggy-back it on to a protected status.

You are fairly safe from litigation if poor grammar always means not hired. If everyone who exhibited the grammar skills or lower that this person did, then there is no discrimination.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[MeGustaXL]

[sub]I'm going to get flamed, I just know it[/sub]

I feel the following* when I hear these UK accents:

Birmingham / West Midlands / Dudley / Wolverhampton : Comical, easy-going person.

Geordie: Great fun, and a real bundle of laughs.

RP (Received Pronunciation aka "Posh" or "Lah-De-Dah"): Stuck-up git, full of self importance.

Scouse: Light-fingered, scrounging layabout.

Northern Ireland / Belfast: Violent, troublemaking dangerous person to cross.

Southern Ireland: Happy, laid-back and outgoing.

Glaswegian: Drunk, and violent with it.

I'm gonna stop now, before dey send da bhoyz round!

*These are only my instinctive reactions, and do not reflect or refer to any real persons, lining or dead

Chris

When his pin is pulled, Mr Grenade is not our friend - USMC Infantry Manual

 

[Welshbird]

MeGustaXL.

I can't bellow at you too much - you didn't way anything awful about my accent (South Wales).

But OOOYYYY!!!

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[johnherman]

I must admit I feel a negative connotation to people who axe me a question. Or celebrate birfdays.

I'm not talking about biological impariments like lisps, I'm talking about improper pronunciation such that I would be afraid or embarrassed to place this person in front of a customer, internal or external.

Maybe someday such variations in speech will be accepted (as was the verb ain't in written American English) but until then, I reserve the right to place well-spoken staff in front of our company's most valuable asset - its customers.


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The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was - Steven Wright

 

[KornGeek]

I've got no problem with people who get excited about their "birfdays". Then again, the people I know who use that term are usually looking forward to their 2nd, 3rd or 4th birfday.

 

[Lunatic]

Ah, I knew I was forgetting one... Lisp = possible disability, can't descriminate on the basis of disability, thats the other protected class.

However the is a big difference between accents/lisps and a lack of understanding of the structure of the language.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum