Junior / in the middle / senior? 1

[beltmanjr]

When can you call yourself a junior, 'something in the middle' or a senior in a field?

What factors does this depend on?

 

[spamly]

I think that it may depend on your HR department. In an ideal world, job titles would be based on competency and responsibility. Many HR departments, though, assume that years of experience equals skill level. As we all know, this isn't always the case. Unfortunately for us, HR rules often overrides common sense.

 

[beltmanjr]

You did spell it right the 2nd time in the QUOTE

Maybe I progressed to mid-level 'quote' speller?

I think that it may depend on your HR department.

It depends on the person recruiting/interviewing. It isn't that hard to pick out the really bad ones. Simple demonstration tests of the minimum you would expect as competence should eliminate the really bad ones.

And you can vary these tests to accomodate the level of knowledge you feel the right candidate should possess.

Test can be computer based, but also very silly questions could really give you a great inside on how the candidate would handle a situation.

But this wasn't a post about interviewing/recruitment techniques

 

[SQLSister]

spamly, it is my experience that HR often does not know the person is a poor performer because the supervisor always gave him or her satisfactory ratings. One cannot blame them on evaluating the ability to move to a senior position when no one has told them the person isn't doing the work at the correct level. Further in most places a manager would have a say in whether this person is to be promoted even if HR is the group that brings it up. I have also seen people win lawsuits to be promoted because they were never informed that their performance was not acceptable. It has always amazed me how many supervisors are unwilling to take the necessary steps to get rid of poor performers.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[StuTheNetTech]

Good day all,
I am getting into this thread rather late but I do have something to say about this whole ordeal. I have been in the IT field for 6 years. My job title in the military was Computer information systems network operator. in short the whole gambit for about 250 users. I learned a lot. now I am doing the exact same job on civi street and I am a Network support technician. what do you say to that? I say it is true that it all boils down to whatever the boss wants to call you. the BOSS is rarely savvy to the job titles in regards to IT due to the BOSS's lack of knowledge. Now, I support the users, the network and the software. I am good at my job (at least that is what they tell me) and when a task is put on me I complete the task. So, all in all if you are placed with a task and cant do it, does that make you junior? and if so if you can take on the task but need help does that make you a mid-level? and if so again, if you can take the task and complete on your own confidently does that make you senior? well, there hasn't been a task I haven't completed yet so if all that is true I am a senior with only 6 years.....doesn't make sense to me anyways. I am no good at SQL but I can network 20,000 in a week. what does that make me? I think it all comes down to level of confidence the company places on you. If you are placed under another guy then you aren't senior. if you have an IT Boss you answer to and a junior body your midlevel and if you are the bottom of the stack well, the confidence isn't there yet so you are a junior. aaahhh good post.

-Stu

-"failure is not an option. it comes bundled with windows

 

[ArizonaGeek]

Career advice: this person is not suitable for IT. He better finds something that does agree with him.. 10 years? Man you should certainly be mid-level in the field you have been working in for that long!

Agreed. Too bad I am not in a position to remove him, otherwise he'd been walking a year ago. My boss keeps him around to do the jobs neither of us want to do. We task him with re-imaging desktops, changing out printer toner, etc. Personally I'd rather have a peer that compliments my weak spots. My boss is an expert at networking while I am an expert at server support and operating systems, where I fall short in my skills he picks up and where he falls short I pick up. The two of us work fantastic together. We just have this third wheel hanging around. I usually get more done if he is out of the office. I am not trying to bash the guy really, he really is a nice guy but lacking in the IT skills.

all in all if you are placed with a task and cant do it, does that make you junior?

I would think your boss or senior person wouldn't task you with a job you couldn't do. I've only had one job like that, I was tasked with work I clearly didn't have the skills to do (and the boss knew it,) that's like getting set up to fail. And that sucks!

Also, if you are tasked with something you cant do, personally I'd rather someone tell me they can't do it and I either work with them to teach them, or let them at least try to make it work. But I know ahead of time based on the job if I can assign it to them or not. Nothing like tasking someone with something to do, they say they can handle it no problem, then they fail at it and I gotta spend twice as long cleaning it up and redoing it.

Cheers
Rob

The answer is always "PEBKAC!

 

[StuTheNetTech]

Well, Arizona Geek,

I think you miss understood what I was getting at in reference to your last quote there. We have only 5 IT guys and the tasks that get issued to me are usually from an executive level. where the tasks are issued with instructions from a user a level of interpretation is required to formulate a plan. for example. The executive wants outlook on his blackberry. well, from my point of view that cant be done. So I explain to the executive that if he wants outlook on his PDA we will have to revamp our blackberry server and purchase Treo's. This can be expensive. (just as a hypothetical.) So with that again being said with the example i think what i am trying to say is that the executives sometimes lack the IT Knowledge to clearly get across exactly want they want done, A junior level IT would probably say "Yes sir, Ill get right on it" and have to later report it cant be done.....hey, is that another way to define junior/mid-level-and senior? it is, I think the experience that comes with work in the IT field is only part of the overall experiance. perhaps you can guage your level on interpreting and translating IT Jargon and Exec-U-Speak. Trying to explain to the VP of your company that you need 50,000 dollars for offsite diaster recovery hardware is not an easy task (with some). But if the IT Manager can make a good, educated pitch it would be a lot easier. perhaps it again boils down to confidence in the task at hand. (sorry for the tangeant)

 

[ArizonaGeek]

Ah thats cool, I understand. I work in a shop of 3 IT guys and less than 50 employees including the CEO, VP's and managers. So I rarely get those executive level tasks. Other than our CEO and a few others (like our sales guys) our staff is actually pretty tech savvy. We have a fairly young group of employees, probably 70% are in their mid to late 20s, most straight out of college.

You're correct though, a junior level person will usually want to impress the boss and just say right out, "Sure I'll get right on that" instead of saying "it wont work and here are the reasons why"

And your DR scenario is a great example.

Cheers
Rob

The answer is always "PEBKAC!

 

[spamly]

It's interesting seeing this discussed from so many points of view. I work in a company with over 20,000 employees and an IT staff of ~420. I would love if rank/titles were associated with expertise. Unfortunately, where I work the HR department has categorized us all in into job categories/titles based on several factors (in this order):
* Experience
* Education
* Responsibility

It's definitely not perfect, but the people who have been around the longest like it because it greatly rewards longevity/loyalty.

[rant]
When I started here, I had more responsibility and relevant experience than everyone else on my team. Unfortunately, I didn't have the sheer number of years (12) of experience or education (4-year degree) to justify a "lead" position. This meant that a co-worker with 3 years server experience, 10 years repairing vending machines, and a theater degree was awarded a lead position. This is just one of the leads that I was tasked to train. Oh, this was pure joy for me.

Now I have all the criteria (as defined by HR) for a lead. I was promoted to this level a year ago, but I've been so jaded that I haven't even updated my badge.
[/rant]

 

[acewarlock]

I could care less what my Title and Responsibility's are as long as I enjoy my job and they pay me what I want. I have worked for some real jerks that I've had to carry, but they left me alone to do my job.





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