Hypothetical question....re: careers and money 7

[BeckahC]

This is just a hypothetical question that came up in a discussion I had with a friend the other day and I was curious enough to want to get more opinions:

Let's say you're a programmer who is not paid terribly well (under 30K/yr) but you love what you do and where you work, etc.

Then someone comes to you with the possibility of a position elsewhere making something like twice what you are making, but doing something else, something you are capable of doing but may or may not enjoy as much.

I was kind of stumped at this question, as I had never really thought about it. On the one hand - I'm a "starving programmer" on the other I'd be a successful "not a programmer" but able to pay bills and such... I'm happy where I am, but I had to say I'd be tempted....

How about any of you out there? How do you think you might respond? BeckahC

 

[wlewis]

I can relate to the question. I am a networker by preference and training, but when a programming job came up for more money I took it. Needless to say, it wasn't the best fit :-(. On the one hand, I now have a properly balanced budget. On the other hand I now have a properly imbalanced work life. In direct answer to your hypothetical question, I'd say that you could do just about anything for a period of time if you knew when it would end. However, doing what you love is the best recipe for success that I know.

My 2 cents.

Will

 

[BeckahC]

Thanks Will...

I actually had one friend answer the question with "If someone would pay me to sweep the floors for twice what I'm making now, I'd do it!" But I found that a little surprising...

I love what I do, but I don't know if I'd have the strength to turn down financial security to keep on doing it... BeckahC

 

[elizabeth]

Most of us are multi-talented and can be happy in several different fields. A career that makes you happiest overall won't necessarily pay poorly. Many programmers make $60k or more per year. If you can't get it at your current position, you may elsewhere. We are in one of the best-paying fields in the world, so check out salary comparisons (lots on the internet). Know your value. If you aren't being paid comparably, you are probably either (1) no good at your job (2) undervalued by your employer, or (3) volunteering. Volunteering is important, but only satisfying if you believe in your organization and its goals.

 

[mcconmw]

It is not a simple decision to make and ultimately it requires a lot of soul searching to determine what is important to you. I made the decision to leave a job I loved for one making more money that I have not enjoyed. If you asked me on a bad day, I would tell you it wasn't worth it, but most of the time I am at peace with my decision. Most people work 40-50 hours and sleep 45-55 hours. That leaves 60 or so hours a week for everything else. I spend much of my 60 hours travelling, seeing plays, going to museums, camping, etc. generally just doing what I personally enjoy. I was severely limited in how much of this I could do at my former job due to money now it is not so much of a limiter. I traded enjoyment in one area for enjoyment in another. As with most things in life it is a tradeoff.

 

[BeckahC]

Yes... If you go with more money there is more to enjoy and more relaxation personally - we could buy a house, pay off the car and the bills, etc.... However, is it worth possibly giving up something I enjoy at a place I usually enjoy working at with people I feel are almost like family? It would be a difficult choice for me to make.

For me it's got the addition of having to put off having a family for a year or two until getting established at the new place... This one question asked in fun by a friend has totally opened my eyes and made me start to rethink the priorities I had thought I'd set in my life... BeckahC

 

[mcconmw]

Another thing to keep in mind is that for most of us more money does not bring any real relief from debt or money related stress. If you do not know how or have the discipline to save with a little bit of money, you won't know how to do it with more. Many times we translate more money into more debt in the form of a bigger house, better car, etc. which can actually be counter productive if for any reason (sickness, layoff, etc) you are unable to maintain that salary and are therefore unable to keep up with the debt. Every person is different though and we each value different things whether it is stability, adventure, leisure, etc. No matter which route we choose we almost always have to give up one thing to have another.

 

[BeckahC]

mcconmw -
Hmmm.... as someone relatively just starting out - I have been programming for 2 years now, 24 years old, newlywed, etc... what you're makes sense. If I were to ever face this decision for real, I truely don't know what I'd do. It's interesting to hear other views and opinions though.

I wouldn't want to limit myself too early, but I wouldn't want to leave something I like before getting the seniority to really get into it even more. BeckahC

 

[BeckahC]

I meant to type "what you're saying makes sense" (That should teach me not to type while talking to someone on the phone! ;-) ) BeckahC

 

[elizabeth]

Incidentally, I've been through this scenario you describe several times. I took a (small) pay cut to take my current job, as I was not busy enough at my last job. I felt both bored and guilty. That was stressful for me. Now I'm too busy, but I have excellent training - about 2 weeks per year, off-site. It was pretty easy to justify the pay cut for this benefit, as training is very important to me, and very expensive.

I previously left a well-paid position where I'd been working for 7 years to relocate where niether my husband or I had jobs. It was very tough but the climate and economy just weren't working for my husband (not in IT). In 4 years we moved to 3 different cities, twice cross-country, before we found a comfortable spot for both of us. It was a huge expense in terms of dollars but the payoff in our daily lives is bigger. We are much happier with the better climate and better work opportunities, while paying off the debt all that moving incurred, than we were with the old situation.

 

[BeckahC]

Yes there's the good and bad about every situation... I'm still struggling with the whole family vs. career, or family and/or career question and having this question broached to me did not make it any easier.

I appreciate everyone's input on this...it's very interesting to see how others feel about stuff like this. It certainly affects the development of one's career when you're not sure about something like this... BeckahC

 

[vaoldschl]

Just a little been there done that to add. Out of college with a degree in English I worked for five years in non-profit theatre. I was good at what I did, I loved the environment and I enjoyed the people. My income on my return for 1995 was under 15K. I had plenty of money, a nice apartment, decent furniture, and a car that ran most of the time. I was offered a position that doubled my salary working admin in an IT environment and took it. I have since trained myself to be a System Administrator for PBXs. I make better than four times what I made in '95. I have plenty of money, a nice house, decent furniture and a car that runs most of the time.

 

[BeckahC]

maxg,

Thanks, I only wish I could say I were in a posiion to go where my heart takes me... unfortunately I am in a position where any amount of additional $$ would help. A tiny apartment piled with boxes a car that breaks after every fix and combined income between myself and my hubby that equals what would be just a little more than double my salary... If the hypothetical job were real I would increase our combined income by nearly 50%, allowing us to pay up some things that need paying... I guess I would take it if it were offered... but it does have me thinking about whether or not I should be looking to make the hypothetical a reality... (I almost think this is what my friend wanted me to be thinking of....) BeckahC

 

[mcconmw]

<30K is underpaid for a programmer in most areas of the country. If you want to make more and are willing to go look for it, you should be able to get it. That being said, I know nothing about the region you live in or the demand in the area. I graduated school six years ago with a BS and started slightly higher than 30K and have increased that by 10-20% every year since. However, I also have changed jobs 3 times and relocated twice. That is hard when you are married. All it takes in this industry to find a job is a bull-headed approach to applying for jobs and constant determination to master anything set before you.

 

[vaoldschl]

What I was trying to say was an agreement with previous posts, just because you make more money doesn't mean you'll have more money at the end of the week. I agree that you are underpaid in your current position and probably should look elsewhere as it sounds like you are dissatisfied with that fact but don't let money be the only focus because you will end up much like the rest of us out here, relocating, changing jobs, always looking for the next leg up and not realizing that we may have had it in our last position. I mean, again been there, in the seven years since I left the theatre I have had six different jobs in three different cities. I've finally found the keeper, I think, but who is to say the theatre wasn't the keeper from the start.

 

[MasterRacker]

Basically, in these kinds of decisions you have to figure out the minimum level of income you need to support minimum level of lifestyle you desire. If you're below that line you end up being willing to do just about anything to get above the line. Once you're above it you start making the trade-off decisions folks are talking about where you weigh the extra $ against loss of time, vacation, convenience, etc.

For my own example, I feel I'm underpaid by a good 10-15%. Because of where I live, a new job would involve a commute or relocation. The commute would cost a good deal in fuel, mileage on the vehicle,etc. not to mention the extra lost time every day. To get a job that paid me 10% more plus enough above that to cover commuting costs, I would probably end up working another 10-15 hours a week on top of the commuting time. Meanwhile, my current income, while not as high as I'd like is minimally enough to maintain the basic lifestyle I desire. Also, I'm in a known situation and generally like my job. So, for the time being at least, the scales tip toward me staying where I am.

It's not all about money and it's also not all about lifestyle. It is always a tough balancing act.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....

 

[BeckahC]

mcconmw,
I am quite underpaid, however, all I have is experience and training - no degree at all - which makes it difficult sometimes to get your foot in the door at new places. Here I have not only proven myself, but I also have friends in Management and I enjoy a job security that I would likely not have anywhere else. I am the only one who does what I do. I am invaluable to a company that does tend to underpay nearly everyone (I'm not alone) but is very family friendly - if I were to have a child and that child were home sick, or needed to be picked up early, sitter canceled, etc... I would not be penalized for taking whatever time I needed off, as long as the work gets done relatively on time and they have what they need when they need it, they are flexible with that. The people here care about each other... if someone is not in, they can usually expect a call or e-mail of concern, or at the very least their abscence was noticed and asked about upon return. What I and others like me need to ask is - Is this worth barely scraping together the rent every month? Is it worth the dwindling savings? etc...

maxg,
This is my dilema...obviously, since this was a hypothetical situation brought up by someone there is no major timetable to a &quot;decision&quot; however, it does have me thinking about whether or not happiness is worth going broke or if having money is worth added stress/worry/pressure/commute (I live pretty close to work - 10-15 mins. max). So I ask myself now.... should I start looking to make the hypothetical a reality?

MasterRacker,
I believe we are below the line... but to pursue another position would be an expense we may not be able to afford... Where I currently work has office casual... I have no suits - big expense to get a few. Wherever else I could get a position would be a longer commute = less sleep, less time with hubby and family (My husband is very supportive and has said numerous times he just wants me to be happy and he'll support my decisions even if it means we see each other a bit less )

I will likely continue where I am for a time and see what happens... though it is nice to &quot;type out loud&quot; about such things and listen to the opinions of others on things like this! It's also good to know that despite the confidence those in our profession seem to show that other people (besides me) have doubts or at least perform &quot;mental juggling acts&quot; to keep their lives balanced and make decisions like this too! BeckahC

 

[jasek78]

BeckahC -

I think the most important ability we have is that to learn. Keep in mind that you can always take classes at a local college (of the Community or Technical sort) for fairly little money, and if you work the financial aid out right, even get paid to do so. Granted, this isn't always possible, or realistic, but it is an option.

Jason

 

[BeckahC]

jasek78,
I was going to school for my AAS in CIS at the local Community College. I actually got fed up with it... they wanted a lot of Homework to be done and there was a lot of testing that was verbatim from the text and I didn't have time to just sit there and memorize a textbook or listen to a professor read one out loud. I want to learn, not be required to spit back what I was just told. And to be quite honest... I'd rather be doing work at night rather than schoolwork - I guess it might have been different if the classes I was required to take weren't so easy - I was not allowed to &quot;test out&quot; of any of them (school policy)... so it felt like a huge waste of time and $$.

Training classes, on the other hand have been terrific! I took Learning Tree classes when I was first learning SQL Server and I loved it! There wasn't a single day that I ever went home not having learned something new... I already put in for more training classes and would love to go for some MS certs - like MCDBA, but I am going to try to wait until I have some more experience and training under my belt before doing that since the tests can be pretty expensive to take and I don't think I could get reinbursed if I didn't pass...

The only obstacle not having a degree has been to me has really been having to prove myself wherever I go. Where I am now I worked my way up from the bottom in the deprtment I started in and then I transferred into InfoMgmnt when I had some experience in SQL and ASP.... Then I started out at the bottom here and am working my way up again.... Now I know if I were to go someplace else I would not want to start at the bottom again, so if I do go for the degree it's really just a door-stop to save my foot from getting caught in that door! (I am not saying I don't have anything to learn... I'm just saying I enjoy learning in a more productive environment than Community College offered me) BeckahC

 

[mcconmw]

I would highly, highly recommend pursuing at least a BS in anything even if it is not CS. Far too many companies will not even consider you without a BS even if you have excellent experience. I have met entirely to many highly skilled, highly experienced people that are stuck in too low of a position simply because of company education requirements or stuck with a company they hate because they cannot take the pay cut to start over somewhere else. It may be a waste of time as far as knowledge gained is concerned, but it will make life much, much easier over the long haul finding new jobs and getting the promotions you want. Just my 2 cents.....