How do I get my Boss fired 7

[jdognz]

Dont take this too seriously but i want to know if anyone has had success in getting there boss fired.

My boss is completly incompetent and this frustrates me immensly. I like to work hard but the harder I work the better it makes him look even though he does very little...anyone got any suggestions or stories?

 

[orypecos]

Sad to hear that they are punishing you for saying what everyone was feeling. But as I have seen in my life, life is not fair, and even though you might have saved the company millions if the supervisor 'went postal', they still see you as the 'bad guy'. It just goes to show you some management has no lack of depth to their stupidity.

 

[ilovrose]

Orypecos Thank You for your kind words.

I just hope that all bosses out there take a minute to review their behavior. Take some time and consider just how you are viewed by your employees. Don't be proud of yourself if they quake you when arrive. Don't presume that because they confide all their personal business with you that you do a good job managing work and work related issues. Do not think that it's ok if you yell and intimidate because everyone knows that just how you are and you don't mean anything serious by it. Please don't put your employees in the position I was in... where they feel there is no other reasonable alternative than to go above you to discuss your behavior and professional conduct. Most of your employees are not out to get you... don't give them compelling reasons to take actions they would prefer not... value your job by placing value in your employees and demonstrate that value by how you treat them on a daily basis.

 

[orypecos]

Sad to say, most persons are driven to be a supervisor not because they love personal constructive interactions, but by desire to dominate. Why else would many of them take a cut in pay and benifits from what they were getting paid before? At least that is the way it was the last place that I worked. Most of the first level supervisors got paid less per hour when you considered all the unpaid overtime they had to do, and they had to pay more for their benifits.

 

[ilovrose]

Good point orypecos!!! Good point.

I was asked once about managment and my answer was that if I could advance the solutions, ideas, and outcomes I wanted without being a manager that was more than fine with me...but I realized that to often you have to be a manager to bring about changes, to be heard, to have the authority to do what it takes to make the differences. Otherwise I really wasn't interested.

You are so right that it is often a power issue. Especially for those that don't have control in their personal lives it becomes even more important to do so at work. I believe some people aren't into the power but are into ego...how they are perceived by others..especially outside of work in the social arena.... the title is everything. Give them an important sounding title and they are happy making coffee and running the copy machine.

My father was a school administrator and he seldom hired an A student to teach. He stated that the A student seldom could relate to the average student or those who had difficulties in learning. He tried to find a teacher with personality, the ability to learn, and with varing grades. He found them the most well rounded and able to reach more of the students with positive outcomes. I think this is a lesson that companies need to learn. The wiz bang worker, star performer often doesn't have the personality and talent to be a successful manager. There are other ways to reward their work, and management should be off the table as an assumed outcome of steller performance.

I'd rather have a former co worker who is capable on the job, but who has the people skills, vision, and reasonable drive be my manager than Mr. or Mrs. Wiz Bang. Someone you want to work for and with is a motivator.

 

[jaymaechtlen]

If a boss or co-worker is abusive, etc:
Would carrying a portible voice recorder be an option?
How about (if you really have the courage) to place it in record mode on the desk before a meeting?

Jay

 

[orypecos]

Even if you have a recording, you usually are still marked as a 'troublemaker' and your career suffers. Most American management practices reward managers that 'lie low' and not make waves. If they try to improve things or solve problems they are seen as troublemakers and their careers suffer.

 

[ilovrose]

Orypecos is once again correct.

We had an employee that brought a recorder to all the staff meetings and if she was called into the office by the supervisor she just automatically brought with her a recorder. It was viewed as challenging and that she was trying to set them up...rather than as an employee who wanted to be sure that she understood what she was told and could play back the info if she needed too.

The manager (now gone) had every single e-mail that she sent (even to co workers if possible) forwarded to personnel .... this employee lasted less than 60 days in our unit. She wasn't fired but she felt uncomfortable, at odds and was smart to leave for another agency.

It is true that as a manager if you do little and stay low you will not only survive but move up.... those that make chages (no matter how positive) will make their staff uncomfortable (change does that) and as a result be talked about... and well... probably not survive long unless strongly supported by upper management. If you want to make changes network with the powers that be for a year after being promoted...let your staff adjust to you and talk about upconing improvements for a long time before doing anything. Yes the changes that could occur in 60 days may take 2 years and your long range goals that should be completed in 2 years might take 10 years if still applicable.... but as a supervisor you will survive.

Crazy... yep....

 

[stormbind]

Interesting, ilovrose,

I know of managers who do that: talk of change, and then don't do anything about it. It frustrate me, and makes me not want to work hard: managers like that are the least proactive people on the planet, so why should their staff be proactive about anything?

This is definately one that bellongs in the how to demoralise staff thread.

--Glen

Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam

 

[ilovrose]

Glen,

It is people like you and I that it frustrates and bothers. However the majority of employees talk wanting change but want no change. They are scared of change, learning something new, or different. They just want to come to work, do their thing, the way they have always done their thing and go home. They want to remain in their comfort zone unless it is they that think up the change to be implimented..

You and I would welcome a positive well thought out change, help, be delighted. We are not the average employee.

I'd be one to look it over, research it and then proceed with changes. I'd also be gone within 2 years.

 

[stormbind]

Maybe companies should make a point of questioning adaptability before employing staff?

--Glen

Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam

 

[mmorancbt]

My personal experience with management is that they are typically there because they have shown some initiative and demonstrated aptitude.

Are there some that are less effective - yes! Have I worked for a manager who was bitter and abusive - sure. Is is the norm - far from it.

I consult with many companies every year and find that, in contrast to the message conveyed here, that a majority of managers tend to be good at what they do and have a pretty good rapport with their team.

Having been in the position of staff employee, manager, and business owner, when you have staff that reports to you, you are typically very concerned with their success and their job satisfaction. I know I was and I can remember many bosses I worked for who expressed similar sentiments.

On the other hand, I have found employee cynicism to be much more prevelant and common place. The "man is trying to keep me down" syndrome was common when I was a clerk and when I was an employer. It is an insidious us versus them mentality that is like a bad disease and spreads with vocal and habitually dissatisfied employees.

I counsel my children with similar advice that I give to employees. Beware: If you have had problems or a negative experience with EVERY employer (or even the majority) or boss you have worked for, you have to carefully consider what you are doing to sabotage things.

I actually spoke to someone last year who said in 10 years he had worked for 8 different employers and EVERY ONE OF HIS MANAGERS WAS INCOMPETENT. He might be right but then again, it does make you wonder.

I am not trying to incite flame wars here, just interject a perspective. I don’t know any of the personal situations of the people in this discussion and cannot speak with any authority about your place of work. I am certainly not contradicting or discounting anything anyone has said about their situation. I am just offering some general observations.

The other side to this is that when I had a boss (remember, I had an abusive boss) to contend with, I made a determination; Was there a future and ability for me to move within the company? There was, so I put my nose to the grindstone and adopted those skills needed to move into a new role. I walked very gently around the abusive (wildly vindictative and dictatorial is probably a better description) boss – producing very well but also not getting caught up in complaining about her or in any way letting her bad attitude affect me. Simultaneously I networked within the company with my targeted department.

There was a 4 month window where I knew I could not transfer to a new position - got to love large corporate policy. During those 4 months I got to know the manager of the department I wanted to work in. At the 4 month mark, that manager did not have a position available but she went out of her way to maneuver a position from another department into hers (by sharing some of my time with them) – I took that role.

I believe most of us can bear tedious and difficult times if there is a plan of action – an exit route. If you have a difficult boss (actually abusive as opposed to abrasive – there is a difference) and there is no suitable movement within the company, leave! Find a new job. Every job is simply an agreement between you and your employer – trading items of value. If your agreement is a bad one, you have to negotiate a new agreement with your employer or find a new agreement.

This attitude includes two important facets. One, that you are not an indentured servant and have the ability to make a move if you wish to. The second is that you believe and actually do bring value to the organization you serve. This is important when it comes to finding the right agreement.

My input only, your mileage may vary. ;-)

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[stormbind]

Matthew, have you ever had a colleague who just did not like you? (i.e your face, your accent, your clothes..)

I ask this because it sounds like you have a remarkable ability to pick and choose your friends.

--Glen

Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam

 

[ilovrose]

Matthew,

I appreciate all your comments and the time and energy that it took you to share them. It is wonderful that you have had such success and been able to avoid the abusive supervisor till you were able to get out from under them. Your advise on how you did that is a great read.

Let's label you the Poster Boy for the cause.

I totally agree that if anyone has issue with boss after boss that they need to review there personality, style, work habits, etc... I agree that it is best to move on if you can, as soon as you can. I agree with other posting reflecting that negative outcomes can land on those that don't flee but want to somehow take on an abusive boss.

That said let's deal again with reality. I'm personally not a Poster Child for any cause, I'm just not that perfect. I am more typical.

I have found that most bosses care about people, but few really care about all their employees. True caring means setting them up for success, finding out what their goals are and helping them achieve them, and when it's unpopular to continue to assist your employees meet their objectives.

My personal experience has been that bosses have agenda's and you may or may not fit into that mix. Most would be a great neighbor but not a great boss. Many just don't have the skills, style and networking to be successful. They survive and the unit survives.... but that is all. They may have the desire but usually don't know how to make it all work.happen.

How successful a manager is in getting people in his unit promoted or in meeting their own personal goals while maintaining the units outcomes is a best true measure of a successful manager. One without the other is typical. Helping one indivdual in a unit move on is not success.

To many good managers view their job as with their employer and not realize that meeting their employers expectations required meeting the personal goals of their employees.

Enough.

 

[mmorancbt]

Hmm??? Good question.

My wife and sister tell me that my personality overlooks people who may not like me. Maybe I'm blind to it?

I think part of it is a theory/attitude that I try to actually live. It says, "people are where they are." I like people, genuinely. Even people who can be abrasive or antogonistic. I find them interesting.

I don't stress about projects. I laugh at my own mistakes (and I laugh a lot). And I try to apply the same grace (forgiveness/leeway) to people that I NEED to have applied to me.

Small example: I rarely - can't remember a time - I got angry at someone for cutting me off while driving or accidentally turning in front of me. And yet, I drive with people who get very agitated about that. My question or thought is always, "Didn't I do that last week?"

Of course, those out to hurt people, emotionally or otherwise, do raise my hackles a bit. I try to separate intent from action. Having a very hyperactive child who gets in trouble A LOT at school makes this necessary.

When I evaluate whether my children should be in trouble, I try to see where their intent lay.

I try to do the same with the people I work with. Not always successfully, but I try.

iloverose,
You mention that most managers have an agenda that may or may not include their employee's success. I believe that is true. In fact, I give a presentation titled, The Value-Added Technologist and talk about agendas a lot.

Everyone has an agenda. You do, I do, managers do, business owners do.

That's good. We should all have an agenda. However, much of the time we (managers included) do not determine or place the organization's they serve's agenda as paramount.

The key, I believe, to career success is doing exactly that. Determining your agenda, understanding the organization's and management's agenda, and finding a match. If your agenda and the organization's agenda do not match, you should look elsewhere.

When you can match your agenda to the organization's agenda, you get a true win-win. That sounds simplistic but that is a good practice - even if only in theory.

Good topic and good discussion all the way around.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[mmorancbt]

I'll add this and then I'm off. I have a program I'm writing for a client and need to finish it to get paid and I am speaking this afternoon and tomorrow and need to get my notes together.

I've spent the past couple of years speaking at various conferences to technology professionals, management, instructors, and business owners.

I mentioned The Value-Added Technologist. Here is the version I used most recently for a series of Prentice Hall events...

http://www.cbtoolkit.com/PHIT2005/

I hope you enjoy and if not, that is what the delete key is for. ;-)

Please understand, I know that bad things and people happen. In fact, I steal (borrow actually) a line that Dave Ramsey uses (

http://www.daveramsey.com

). He has those who attend his presentation hold out their left wrist, facing up. He then has them take their right hand and place their fingers across the wrist and feel.

He asks, "What do you feel?" The answer, of course, is a pulse. He then explains that if you feel a pulse it is 100% certain that you will experience a negative financial event at least once in your life - probably more than once!

I modify it to say that you will experience a negative career event at some point in your life! I am being brutally honest about that. It will happen.

What that means is that you are not alone and that you have to get over it and deal with it. I explain that if you have a bad job or career event you should be excited because it was predicted and therefore you are perfectly on track with your career.

It is like I tell married couples (my wife and I have been together for 20 years - married for 17), prepay your marriage counseling every year - you'll need it! That is, if you want to succeed. Things get difficult at times. That's the way life is.

In careers it really isn't the events that occur to you that define a career because a career is a life-time thing - not a this year/this moment type of thing. It is your reaction and well-defined actions that will dictate career success - long term.

My blog to end last year was, "So what, who cares, now what, move on!"

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/archives/002537.asp

Good or bad year I asked that we consider our successes or failures and then make our plans for the next year. I also realized that I failed to add my plans for the future year - so I'll have to do that soon.

But I actually believe and think this way. I actually believe those platitudes like, "today is the first day of the rest of your life." Why not, the alternative is a trifle bit depressing and isn't very constructive.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[summerjoy]

about being labelled a trouble maker after talking w/ uppermanagement about an abusive and incompetent boss, i've seen uppermanagement calling the person a loose cannon and siding with the abusive and incompetent boss. i've also seen uppermanagement calling the person a loose cannon and siding with the abusive and incompetent boss, yet when the CEO of the company found out, he/she demoted the abusive and incompetent boss, and what he/she did with the so-called a loose cannon (so-called, meaning that they really weren't a loose cannon) -- the CEO promoted him/her and gave him/her the job of the former abusive and incompetent manager. i saw it happen two times. not many times, but i think that is the kind of boss i want to work for. i don't want to work for a boss who allows managers to be abusive and incompetent.

so far in my experience it's hard to find that kind of CEO, but a lot exists (i've been told), and i'm sure there are more out there than we can imagine.

of course a CEO would want to find out if one of their employees was abusive and incompetent. especially if the person who's a manager is incompetent, who would want to pay someone 150K a year to be incompetent. there are CEO's out there that prefer to be informed if something is not right.

in one particular situation, i observed that uppermanagement including the CEO stuck together no matter what. in my opinion, a lot of that is out there - that uppermanagement including the president have already made their decisions of who they will and will not support and stand behind or not stand behind. they stick up for each other period. even if they know they are wrong - they will continue to say they are right period even if what they are saying is incredibly ridiculous. if your abusive and incompetent walks in the office wearing a suit made out of cow dung and the smell was making you nautious, you could tell uppermanagement and they'd just be like, uhh, no but he's not wearing a suit made out of cow dung and you're going to have to realize that, now get back to work. and then their last words about the situation will be something like (or disguised but this is what they are really saying): i'm right, you're wrong, i'll stay up here, and now you will definitely stay down there. what's in it for uppermanagement - why do they support these kinds of managers no matter what - two popular reasons - feeling threatened and politics.

things like that make me feel sad especially for those literally without opportunities and for younger people who start out naive and who don't know that just because your boss says you "can't" doesn't literally mean that you really "can't". you could fight to move up and prove them wrong if that's your decision, or you could get a much better job and give them your exit letter saying, it was a pleasure,... i learned a lot..., now i'm off to abc company as their new xyz manager of their defg department... here's my contact info let's keep in touch... etc...

but i've been advised by other people that the exact opposite exists in the world. their are CEO's out there who will give anyone a chance to speak up, especially if a manager under them is abusive and incompetent. wouldn't you?