How come the "Bad Guys" never post to these forums.....

[TomKane]

Have you ever wondered why it's only us "good guys" who post to these forums? When you see the thread about "Why do we retain managers who know nothing" and the appalling treatment being dished out there - I wonder what goes on in that guy's mind?

I've yet to see a thread posted that says, "Yeah, I'm not doing any work and I'm picking on people to amuse myself, yet I find myself being persecuted for my outlook on life and work - why is that?"

None of us like to think that we're the ones in the wrong - but is it a case that we post to these forums venting our frustration, meanwhile the cause of our trouble could well be going around without a care in the world - having no idea that their behaviour is causing grief?

The flip side to that I suppose is that we could be doing the very same thing and on some other message board somebody is saying what a bad guy/girl we are....

I think it can be hard to do, but maybe these things have to be brought out in the open sooner rather than later to stop minor irritations becoming major obstacles in the workplace.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Couple of thoughts come to mind - with respect to the "take no prisoner" philosphy of many of the contributors, I can understand why someone would not want to open themselves up to the kind of response they'd get. I am grateful that, maybe because of the anonymity of this type of forum, that most people will call it like they see it. If you're on shaky ground, someone will definately hold your feet to the fire.

You do bring up a good point in that its quite easy for us to see the faults in others, yet viewing ourselves thru rose-colored glasses. It is something that we all need to be cognizant of.

It really boils down to the respect that associates have with and for each other. In an office where true open communication exists, these types of problems are not as prevalent and everyone has the ability to speak their mind. Unfortunately, many of the people in management, especially those who are there based on the Peter Principle, or are "political appointees" do not have the confidence in their ability to do the job, and so they aren't going to open their door because they know they will not like what they'll hear.

On the other hand, managers who have earned their position know that they have the confidence of their subordinates, and in turn respect their charges, and so are not afraid to hear what they have to say.

In the final analysis, it comes down to the respect that people have for each other, and open lines of communication. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[butchrecon]

I agree with CajunCenturion. Communication and respect are key to employee relationships, not only with other employees but with management. Unfortunately in today's HIGHLY competitive job market employees getting along can be just superficial. What I mean is many just "tolerate" others until they are promoted or get a better offer. This insincere attitude can cause tension in a company. Is it the fault of the employees? Not always, I think it is due to the competitiveness of the IT industry. People want to "prove" what they are worth or to prove they are better than those that are there. Will this ever go away? Probably not. Its human nature. James Collins
Field Service Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.

 

[TomKane]

I think that sometimes you do have to tolerate people who you wouldn't otherwise associate with - sometimes people just don't get on - it doesn't mean that one of the people is in the right and the other wrong.

I suppose it is human nature - I have seen people take pleasure in our mishaps. Our server once "died" during month end and a member of another IT team seemed to think it was hilarious.

At the same time we have a planning day, and while this kind of thing is subjective, I was very pleased to see that the user interface of our app was far superior to the other apps.

I remember one IT manager I had who used to pass of our work as his own and he'd never tell us how he fixed things, etc, etc - but I wonder did he set out to be the bad guy or was he just being competitive or was he trying to protect his position in the company?

 

[rtrek]

It can be a dog-eat-dog world out there, and otherwise decent people "turn to the dark side" just to protect themselves. Maybe it's not the right thing but they perhaps see it as the only way they can do it. Or at least they take it as easier than working hard or searching for a more rewarding career.

And maybe only competent decent folk would think to come to a place such as this.

That very well may be true as they aren't competent enough to look to a web forum for help in their jobs. Or anything else to help their performance.

 

[mattKnight]

It's interesting to read this thread but I think it is impossible to to be objective enough about oneself to say "I am a bad guy". (at least I don't have the objectivity to do so)

I think the key to this thread is in the ethos of tek-tips: peer reviewing

I think we (probably) all have our "better" periods when we are kind, considerate, responsible, motivated etc, but I also suspect that there are some other periods when we can be like a bear witha sore head.

Maybe I can summarise: We are all "bad guys" at some point, "good guys" at another. So long as we try to always be better (especially than some of the worst as discussed in other threads) its ok... Its a matter of degrees

Sounds a bit preack Iknow!!

Matt

 

[TomKane]

There could be instances where people don't see eye to eye and no matter what they do they won't be able to agree. I recall a situation where a programmer on my team rewrote the entire application in order to provide one particular feature. He was so committed and was so sure he was right to do it that those of us who didn't think it was the way to go did start to question ourselves. In the end that idea was scrapped and I slept easier after that. At the same time this programmer and I wanted the same thing: to provide a service to our users, but we couldn't agree on his solution. Did that make me the bad guy for trampling over his plans and depriving the users of a desirable feature in our system or was he the bad guy for attempting to discard all the hard work in the existing system without informing us until his work was done?

 

[CajunCenturion]

Tom - I don't think the situation you describe is a good guy/bad guy situation. There will always be differences of opinions between professionals, where right/wrong or good/bad are not the issue - it just a matter of two different paths. The individual in the position of authority has to make a decision of which way to go. That's normal, but doesn't make either party good or bad.

Its when the person in position of authority does not respect the opinion of the associate that it becomes bad. Respecting the opinion of a fellow professional does NOT mean that you agree with it. Respecting their position means you understand it, but you don't have to agree with it.

In fact I could argue that you don't have the right to disagree with someone else's opinion unless you understand their opinion. If you don't understand it well enough to explain what you don't like about it, then you don't have the right to disagree with it. I maintain that respecting the opinion of another is to understand their opinion.

The bad guys are those that do not respect and/or understand the opinions of fellow professionals, and from that, it stands to reason, that they wouldn't respect the posting of the other contributors to the forum anyway. In that sense, I'm glad they don't post here.

I would much rather discuss ideas here with fellow professionals who respect and understand my postion, and yet disagree for equally valid reasons. That allows both us to be both student and teacher with each other. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[TomKane]

Yes you're right - but what happened was the work was done in secrecy with no consultation. And when it was finally ready - the attitude was "Well, it's done now so it should be deployed". Even to this day it's still a bit of a sore point. I think I felt bad because I didn't believe it was the way to go, but also that it had taken the best part of a year to do the work - meanwhile the system had moved on in other ways and the consolidation was (in my opinion) going to be very tough.

 

[TomKane]

This is probably getting a little bit too confessional now so I'll leave it at this. I once worked for a small Software House and one day the MD hauled me into the office to tell me off for having an untidy desk (I know there are clean desk policies and that there is good reason for it and for the record I'm much better at that stuff these days) he then proceeded to tell me that he was going to fire the manager (my immediate boss) partly for the same reason.

At this stage I had got another job and was just waiting to do my medical before it was all signed and sealed and I had considered saying, "You'd better not, because I'm leaving" but it wasn't 100% for sure (although the medical was, looking back, a formality). In the end I said nothing - the guy got fired and a couple of weeks later I handed in my resignation - the MD said, "I wonder if I would have fired 'the other guy' if I'd know you were leaving? Hmmmm, no I made the right decision"

I still wonder if I could have saved the guy's job or would he have got the chop anyway....

 

[CajunCenturion]

I don't think so Tom, as you stated, fire the manager (my immediate boss) partly for the same reason. I've emphasised partly, because there were probably deeper reasons for the termination beyond the messy desk. Had you stayed, you may have at best, delayed the termination of your manager, in order to get your replacement up to speed to ease the transition when replacing the manager. That's the only reason for the MD (Managing Director) second guessing his decision because of the difficulty in replacing both of you at the same time. I know I'm not there and don't have all the facts, but I honestly don't believe you contributed to your manager's termination. I believe it was inevitable, only the timing may have changed.

You should not lose any sleep over this. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[TomKane]

I don't know if I read you right, but what I meant was that he also had a messy desk not that he was being fired for the state of my desk....

The only thing I wonder about is that if I'd said there and then that I had intended to leave would the Managing Director still have gone ahead and fired him anyway? I suppose I'll never know, but really if that was true then in the long run he was probably better off not working for a guy like that. I know I was...