Has enormity crossed over? 1

[columb]

I'm sure that everyone in this forum is aware that enormity means

The quality of passing all moral bounds; excessive wickedness or outrageousness

but the incorrect usage as a synonym for 'huge' has become so common that it passes almost without comment.


Today's New York Times uses the 'huge' definition on its opinion page. Is this a sign that the definition has effectively crossed over and common usage makes the 'incorrect' meaning correct?



On the internet no one knows you're a dog

Columb Healy

 

[kjv1611]

I suppose, then it's crossed over to the other side?

[blue]enormity[/blue] = The quality of passing all moral bounds; excessive wickedness or outrageousness

Okay, now I know.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[risby]

Yes. From today you are officially no longer allowed to pedantically "correct" people and try to enforce the archaic meaning on them. Sorry. This must be an enormous loss.

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[AnotherHiggins]

Don't you mean to say, "I can't imagine the enormity of this loss for you"?

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[AnotherHiggins]

Seriously, though - several dictionaries already list "huge" as a valid definition, though they note that some consider it an irregular usage.

[tab]- Merriam-Webster
[tab]- Compact Oxford English Dictionary
[tab]- Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary
[tab]- dictionary.com
[tab]- American Heritage Dictionary
(according to that source, "This distinction between enormity and enormousness has not always existed historically, but nowadays many observe it.")

And I think my favorite is from onelook.com. Under their own definitions, they show the following:

Quick definitions (enormity)

[li]noun: an act of extreme wickedness[/li]
[li]noun: the quality of extreme wickedness[/li]
[li]noun: vastness of size or extent (Example: "[!]In careful usage the noun enormity is not used to express the idea of great size[/!]")[/li]
[li]noun: the quality of being outrageous[/li]

(Red emphasis mine)

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[Stella740pl]

Has enormity crossed over?

Some sources maintain, it didn't happen today - or even yesterday. Shouldn't we regard this as something that already happened to the language and just live with it?

Dictionary.com (

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enormity)

has definitions with reference to different sources. The one that you post belongs to American Heritage Dictionary. But look at this one, from Random House Unabridged Dictionary (my coloring).

[b]e·nor·mi·ty[/b] ...
–noun, plural -ties 
1. outrageous or heinous character; atrociousness: the enormity of war crimes.  
2. something outrageous or heinous, as an offense: The bombing of the defenseless population was an enormity beyond belief.  
[red]3. greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity: The enormity of such an act of generosity is staggering.[/red]  
      ---------------------
[Origin: 1425–75; late ME enormite < MF < L énormit?s. See enorm, -ty2] 

—Synonyms 1. monstrousness, heinousness. [red]3. hugeness, vastness.[/red]
[b]—Usage note[/b] 3. [red]Enormity has been in frequent and continuous use in the sense “immensity” since the 18th century[/red]: The enormity of the task was overwhelming. Some hold that enormousness is the correct word in that sense and that enormity can only mean “outrageousness” or “atrociousness”: The enormity of his offenses appalled the public. Enormity occurs regularly in edited writing with the meanings both of great size and of outrageous or horrifying character, behavior, etc. Many people, however, continue to regard enormity in the sense of great size as nonstandard.

I don't have a problem with something being "monstrous" in the meaning "huge", too - if I remember correctly, this kind of usage is called "hyperbole" (correct me if I used a wrong term). Same would go for "enormous".

 

[columb]

Ok, so it would appear I'm an old fashioned pedant. My mitigating plea is that it does appear in Wikipedia's list of words with disputed usage and I would expect a paper of record to avoid such disputed words.

On the internet no one knows you're a dog

Columb Healy

 

[tcsbiz]

The New York Times has ceased to be a paper of record for many. It has become nothing more than a rag of great enormity. It is evil in its lies and distortions. The once great lady of journalism has fallen to nothing more than fish wrap.

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Well that's on topic.... By the way, the nickname is "Gray Lady", not "Great Lady".

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[AnotherHiggins]

Columb - I have a feeling that most of us in this forum are "old fashioned pedants" about some things.

But for the record, I personally find it clever to make use of the potential double-meaning of the word.

Looking at it in context, that *might* have been the intention of the author.

So far, despite a lot of promises, the industry has been unable or unwilling to rework the junk loans of the bubble years in ways that come near addressing the enormity of the problem.

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[CajunCenturion]

Today's New York Times uses the 'huge' definition on its opinion page. Is this a sign that the definition has effectively crossed over and common usage makes the 'incorrect' meaning correct?

My opinions about the New York Times notwithstanding, and I can't imagine anyone in this forum association me with any form of pedantry, but that being said, this is appears on the opinion page. This should reflect on the author of the opinion, not the NY Times.


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[Michael52x]

I don't think that this word has been correctly assigned it's meaning. It was wrong from the start, and now it is simply being used in it's true meaning. Which is NOT what the OED, or Webster, or anyone else's description is.
I see nothing denoting "evil" or "monstrous" in this word.
Some lazy scribe just was'nt up to par one day, and a mis-nomer was born.

"Impatience will reward you with dissatisfaction" RMS Cosmics'97

 

[Welshbird]

enormity

• noun (pl. enormities) 1 (the enormity of) the extreme seriousness or extent of (something bad). 2 great size or scale: the enormity of Einstein’s intellect. 3 a grave crime or sin.

— USAGE Enormity is not related to enormous and originally meant ‘a crime or deviation from morality’. For this reason some people object to its use in modern English as a synonym for hugeness.

— ORIGIN Latin enormitas, from norma ‘pattern, standard’.

The OED seems happy with either meaning.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[Stella740pl]

"Enormity" is not related to "enormous"???
So what would be the adjective that IS related to "enormous"?

"Enormous" has the same origins as "enormity" - "out of the norm", which easily interprets into "larger than the norm".

From Dictionary.com (

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enormous)

[b]enormous[/b] 
1531, from L. enormis "irregular, extraordinary, very large," from ex- "out of" + norma "rule, norm" (see norm), with Eng. -ous substituted for L. -is. Meaning "extraordinary in size" is attested from 1544; original sense of "outrageous" is more clearly preserved in enormity (1475).

[i]Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper[/i]

 

[AnotherHiggins]

-> So what would be the adjective that IS related to "enormous"?

The argument would be that one should instead say immensity or enormousness.

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[unixfreak]

And just to be pedantic (not that I usually am ), I spot three errors in this sentence:

"On the internet no one knows you're a dog"

Sorry, it has annoyed me for years - lol

And why can't you quote posts on this forum?

Regards,

 

[risby]

Alright then, I'll aks he ...

Witch three errors spottest thee?

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[unixfreak]

s/internet/Internet/

s/no one/no-one/

s/dog/dog./

Sorry... LOL

 

[risby]

I spot one error in this clause

not that I usually am

:-0

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[unixfreak]

Have we met?