Forced to drive?

[Stevehewitt]

Hey,

I've applied for a job recently where there is no mention of having to drive. I think it could be the job of my dreams with a large company and lots of perks.

After the CV, Telephone and face-to-face interview they have offered me the job. The only problem is that there is a clause saying that I am on probation for the first 6 months where I must have passed my driving test.
(I told them in the interview that I am learning).

This isn't possible. I can't give up my secure (reasonably) job at the moment for one where I could get sacked after 6 months if I fail a driving test!!!
I wouldn't mind if it was a aptitude test or something, but driving around here is a nightmare. There's some people who have to wait up to 11 weeks just for their theory test!!!

Any ideas on how to approch this matter would be appreciated.

Thanks,


Steve.

 

[BJCooperIT]

Does this position require you to drive as part of your duties? This could make your dream job a nightmare if you are uncomfortable driving in that area.

Here in the states there are driving schools that, for a fee, teach you the basics and help instill the confidence you need. Is that an option for you? Seems a shame to let this job slip through your fingers just because you are a newbie in the driving arena.

Best wishes.

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8i & 9i - Windows 2000

 

[Stevehewitt]

I've heard a lot of bad things about 'crash courses' in the UK. It maybe an option, but I'll see.

The job doesn't need me to drive, but I would be 'on call' every other weekend - so if there is a problem I would need to go into the office. Weekdays I would be going by Train and a coach - so I really can't see what the problem is.

Thanks,


Steve.

 

[dilettante]

I had the same sort of problem many decades ago.

I found out that "on call" really meant that I might be called in almost anytime. 4:00 AM phone calls were a regular occurrence, though most of what tended to fall apart at this hour could be talked through over the phone.

The job also ended up requiring scheduled weekend work for software upgrades, equipment changeovers, and disaster recovery dry runs and the like.

Maybe your role will be different.

I had to "bite the bullet," get licensed, and get a vehicle. There really wasn't any choice.

 

[OhioBill]

I'm in the US of A, but I've heard that getting a license to drive in the UK is a considerable undertaking. Truth? Over here you have to be REALLY dumb, and work at it, to fail the written portion of a drivers' license exam. As for the portion behind the wheel, all you need in the US is a little practice - I think almost anyone could accomplish it in a few days.

I'd actually mind any kind of test after I'm hired and have passed a probationary period. An employee can either do the work or not, and is either a good fit with the company or not. We have 90 days to find out.

 

[Stevehewitt]

I don't mind the probation period if it was work related, or if they didn't think that I can get to the office on time - but saying that I could be sacked if I couldn't drive seems pretty extream.

I'm just after some advice on what to do next. I'm planning to learn, and sent away for my provisional (test) licence today - so its going to be up to 3 weeks until I can even get in a car!!!

Any advice on what I should tell the company? I want the job, and I'm willing to learn to drive - but I can't run the risk of being out of the job after spending £0000's on learning to drive.

Thanks,


Steve.

 

[RiverGuy]

I've seen job applications (in the U.S.) that state that the applicant must have transportation to and from work. It didn't mean that one would have to own a car to commute, however. These were mainly for jobs when I was younger, and not in IT.

I would try and explain to them your situation. Give them approximate commute times for you taking the mass transit. A train can be late, but so can someone driving in a car with traffic.

If they have a problem with someone using mass transportation to get to work, then I would look to somewhere else for employment.

 

[chiph]

Would it be possible for the company to pay for a DSL line and loan you a laptop to use while you're on call? That way they get the response time they want (not having to wait on you to catch a train, assuming they run on weekends), and you have a little more job security while you get your license.

Chip H.


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[lionelhill]

It all seems rather sad. Large companies are supposed to be looking at eco-friendliness. It's hardly eco-friendly to force yet another car onto the UK's over-stretched roads. And particularly sad in IT, which is supposed to be the archetypal distance-working job.

I assume your future employer is mostly just worried about making sure you are there as needed. Perhaps it could be talked about, and they could be persuaded that in event of your failing the test, you will make arrangements to be available in reasonable time, e.g. by sorting out a taxi or something. After all, it doesn't do their continuity of job-holder very much good if you turn out to be superb at the job and promptly get sacked for not having a car! If they really need someone present instantly and can't deal with a 30min delay ordering a taxi, then they need to look at limiting where you live, too (not more than x-min from office); if it gets that critical, they need staff on site.

 

[RiverGuy]

There could be deeper reasons behind their arguement. If the systems are that crucial that you must be there within minutes if a problem arises, then maybe they are understaffing.

Perhaps they are trying to save on labor. If it is that critical that there are no built-in fault tolerance systems in place, and someone must come in in the middle of the night within minutes, then it seems to me they should have someone on night shift.

If they have problems frequently, and would require you to be there within minutes--even if you did have a car--I wouldn't want the job.

 

[flapeyre]

While my daily commute (driving) is 33 miles (53 km) one way each day, I never have to come into the office during off hours while on call. We are given a laptop to use when on call (however, I have a DSL connection at home and usually log in through the VPN client on my home PC).

But I can understand that some things might requre a physical presence. Our systems operator lives much closer, and if there is a bad tape in the drive while backups are going on (for example), he has to be able to come in and fix it before everyone shows up for work the next day (the system will page him automatically). You can't use a VPN connection to change a bad tape cartridge!


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Stevehewitt]

Hey everyone.

Just to let you know that I have taken alot of your comments on board, and I've sent a email to my contact at the company.
I've put a fair few suggestions in the email and I hope to get a reply tomorrow.

I'll keep you posted!

Thanks,


Steve.

 

[Zelandakh]

Steve,
Roughly where are you in the UK? How old are you?

 

[jrbarnett]

Steve

Speaking as somebody who is learning in the UK at the moment, there are things you can do before getting behind the wheel with an instructor: namely reading up on the highway code, learning roadsigns, stopping/thinking distances etc, and calling around instructors within your area.
Explain that you would be looking to start as soon as you get your provisional license which would be a few weeks time, you can ask them about your concerns. Quick tip: Don't go for anybody who doesn't advertise having dual controls in the car - it lets them take over in case of learner mistakes or misjudgements - which in my case has been many.

You can also take a look at the DSA website which gives details of the tests needed to pass and the regulations governing learning to drive within the UK.

Consider that it could be useful in situations outside of work as well, so even if you decide not to take this job, it may be worth considering.

John

 

[Stevehewitt]

Zelandakh

Im in the Norfolk area, and I'm 20.

jrbarnett

Thanks. I've already ordered the highway code and some interactive DVD stuff (straight from the DSA) off Amazon, so I can swot up on the theory and get the basics in the next few weeks.
I'll be learning regarless of the job now, but its the deadline that I'm worried about!
Thanks for the advice about dual controls! ;-) I'll keep that in mind!

I'm just trying to get a bit of ammo when I talk to the company later tomorrow.

I don't want them to pass me up, because I really think we could be valuable assets to each other -but on the other hand I honestly can't gamble my career on a test that I haven't even started to learn about.

Thanks again everyone - I really appreciate your advice!


Steve.

 

[KenCunningham]

Steve - I'd say have faith in yourself. My 17 year-old son started learning on his birthday in October and passed his test first time in late February. Admittedly, we possibly don't have the same length of time to wait for tests here, but if you get your application in now, who knows? Have you considered the 'boot-camp' week-long intensive style of learning? Not for everyone possibly, but as your confidence behind the wheel increases so does your chance of passing. Good luck anyway.

 

[LesleyW]

First, reading between the lines it doesn't look like you have discussed this clause with the prospective new company. You may find it's not actually vital to have a car and that that is a standard clause. I'm glad you've started discussions via email.

Second, I've no idea how you'll feel about this, or indeed the company, but if getting on site quickly in the dead of night is a priority, why not consider a motorbike? Yes you have the same problems of learning/getting a licence, but you can take Compulsory Basic Training (1 day, and unless you are a complete idiot, you will pass. You may need to take another 1/2 day to pass it, like I did! but provided you are prepared to get up on a bike you will get it). With the CBT you can then ride a small bike (125cc) on L plates for up to 2 years before you take the test. Admittedly if you don't take the test in 2 years they take your provisional licence off you for 1 year. Yes there are many disadvantages to motorbikes as compared to cars (limited luggage and the British weather being the most important ones). And of course if your commute is long a 125cc bike may not cut it. But there are many advantages esp. in traffic jams! Worth thinking about.

 

[Stevehewitt]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your advice. The response from the company is:

"Lets just have it as a 6 month probationary period that we'd expect him to have met his initial objectives and performance and to be able to fulfil a callout role"

I understand that as "I don't care if you pass or not, as long as you can do the job".


Thanks again everyone - your help is appreciated!

 

[ChrisHunt]

Posting after the event, but here's my 10c anyway...

Do you own a car? Is the company going to provide you with one? If, as I suspect, the answer to both questions is "no", it's really not relevant whether or not you have a licence to drive one!

I don't think the company has any right to dismiss you for failing you driving test (morally, that is. What their legal rights are I can't say). Getting there on time is the only thing that matters - whether you do so by car, bike, train or hot air balloon is your business, not theirs.

-- Chris Hunt

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[GaryKearley]

wow, I want to use a hot air balloon to travel to work now! )

Gary

"There are very few problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives"