...For you are crunchy and good with mustard 5

[Ladyazh]

I just saw someone's sig that sounded like Tracy's.
Here it is:

Do not trifle with wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light.


Is this from the same treasure box do you think? Is this some way of saying things that have a definition? Please, elaborate if anyone will.

 

[KornGeek]

Santa,

Meanings of musical lyrics is a subject close to my heart. I never enjoyed studying and interpreting hidden meanings in poems and stories back in school, but for some reason I love analyzing song lyrics.

Rap, hip-hop, etc. aren't the only musical styles that can be difficult to interpret. In fact, Korn's songs (especially their earlier works) often require multiple listenings before I'm able to even guess what the lyrics are let alone what they might mean.

Tori Amos has a beautiful voice, but the meanings of many of her songs are highly cryptic and difficult to decipher.

Oddly enough, once you get past the slang, rap and hip-hop tends to be pretty easy to understand because it is much more direct and tends to have fewer hidden meanings.

One of my favorite bands The Bloodhound Gang has lyrical content that is clearly not for all audiences (many vulgararities), but they do some excellent plays on words and pop culture references that would probably amuse the members of this forum who are not offended.

 

[sleipnir214]

gbaughma:
On your off-topic aside on "They're made of Meat", have you seen

http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/made_meat

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[Ladyazh]

My dearests, it is not that part of playing with words that i do not get. I do not get WHY anyone will start with such like 'wizard'? What is in 'wizard' or like Tracy's signature 'dragons'?
It is not the end BUT the beginning that throws my world off the balance. 'Do not trifle with wizards' - sure like 'wizards' are something that just comes to your mind every day of your life?
Or dragons. Anything else that we can not triffle with because it makes them soggy? Practically everything right?
But why 'wizards'???
Travelocity comes to mind.

BTW CajunCenturion's explanation

"It's really a clever turn of phrase not only because of the double use of 'trifle', but also due to bringing the historical treatment of wizards into play. "

is almost close to my heart BUT why not withces? WIZARDS!Wizards as far as I can recall are advisers for the Mid-Eastern Sheikh's and have nothing to do with us here. Hmmmmmmm

 

[Trevoke]

Ladyazh, your culture induces you in error.
Wizards as in the wizards from fantasy stories, the ones with the long beards and the pointy hats who cast spells.

The original sentence is taken directly from a JRR Tolkien book, "The Lord of the Rings", which was made into a series of movies recently.

The sentence involving dragons.. Well, dragons exist in the Tolkien world, but I don't know how it came to be. Maybe a joke by someone who was entrepreneurial enough to make it into a t-shirt and it became famous.
Many people who are fans of dragons (or believe/know they are dragons, or have dragons as totems, depending on their set of beliefs) like that sentence because it simply means, dragons are powerful, you are weak, dragons will eat you if you even consider annoying them.

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[CajunCenturion]

Wizards have a long and diverse applications.

Throughout history, wizards have been thought to have special knowledge and magical powers, and live and rule throughout the fantasy and mythological worlds. Perhaps one of the most famous wizards was Merlin, the magician in King Author's Court. And of course, let's not forget the The Wizard of Oz.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[gbaughma]

sleipnir214:

That was quite cute, and fairly well done.



Just my 2¢

"When I die, I want people to say 'There was a wise man' instead of 'Finally, his mouth is shut!'" --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Lady,

There are a few elements I don't think have been addressed.

It is common (in the US, at least) for us to quote books and movies we like. It's kind of like fishing. We throw something out there and see if anyone "gets it". If they do, then you have something in common and can share a knowing look. It really is kind of an "inside joke". Part of this "game" is to find an opportunity where a phrase will fit, then be quick-witted enough to recall an appropriate quote to fit the occasion.

For example (this is not a very good example, but it should illustrate my point), if someone balks when they learn some cookies contain raisins instead of chocolate chips, I might say, "but you *like* raisins". The person will either look at me like I'm crazy and respond, "No, I don't" (nothing lost if this happens) or they will crack a smile and recognize that I'm quoting a line from Better Off Dead (one of the Cusack Classics).

As has been mentioned a few times, the line "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" comes from J. R. R. Tolkien, who has a cult-following. So that's "why wizards".

Tweaking this sentence produces "Do not trifle with wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light", which is not only clever in it's own right, but also manages to remain nicely parallel to the structure of the original sentence.

Now to the question of "why dragons?". If you read Tracey's "bio" in faq1256-5837, you'll see that he is not only a collector of dragons, but his last name sounds similar to "dragon". Thus he tweaked the original Tolkien quote to include a reference to dragons and included his own love of mustard.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[Stella740pl]

Wizards as far as I can recall are advisers for the Mid-Eastern Sheikh's and have nothing to do with us here. Hmmmmmmm

Oh. I think you mean vizirs.

vizir:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vizir

wizard:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wizard

 

[Welshbird]

Do ya know - I think the occasional misunderstanding of a pun isn't just for ESL's - often our points of reference within popular culture is very different from each others.

I would guess this is quite noticable from either side of the pond.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[SantaMufasa]

John (AnotherHiggins),

What excellent and insightful (self)analysis of why we (Americans) do what we do when it comes to "inside jokes"...I had never thought of it quite that way before, but you are "right on the money" (to use an idiomatic/slang phrase in itself).

Hava

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Why thank you, kind sir!

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[Ladyazh]

Well, thanks to all for the explanations. I think my confusion all comes from not being a fan of Lord of the Rings type of stories and I am also stuck with lack of knowlege of the Star Wars (so do not try that on me as well
I think you can take a foreigner out of the country but you can not take country out of the foreigner right?

 

[hilfy]

Another piece of cultural information to go along with these two quotes is that many American techies are science fiction and fantasy fans and/or players of role-playing games like Dungeons and Dragons. So, references to these genres of fiction frequently color our conversation.

I've been to many science fiction conventions (I'm on the committee for a small "Filk" or science fiction music convention here in Atlanta) and I frequently see these types of sayings on buttons and bumper stickers that are sold there.

For example, I have among my button collection the following:

Ancient Egyptians worshipped cats. Cats have never forgotten this.

When running from a dragon with a halfling, you don't have to be faster than the dragon. You just have to be faster than the halfling.

My other car is a broom.

Program: a magic spell cast over a computer allowing it to turn one's input into error messages.

I have not lost my mind - it's backed up on disk somewhere.

Network management is like nailing jello to a wall.

Neo-Taoist-Techno-Pagan: I worship the holy mother board.


In order to understand some of these references, you need to be familiar with where they originated. This is not just an ESL "thing", it also applies to native English-speakers who are not familiar with either the literary or technical references and thus, may not "get it".

-Dell

A computer only does what you actually told it to do - not what you thought you told it to do.

 

[gbaughma]

I have not lost my mind - it's backed up on disk somewhere.

How about:

"I was going to back up my disk, but I couldn't find the gear shift!"

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary, and those who don't."

Hardware: noun The part of the computer you can kick.
Software: noun The part of the computer you cannot kick. (But it does need to be booted! hehe)



Just my 2¢

"When I die, I want people to say 'There was a wise man' instead of 'Finally, his mouth is shut!'" --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[chiph]

Adventure! A halfling craves not these things!

____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[tsdragon]

As the current user of the signature that started this whole thread, I guess I should weigh in (better late than never, it's been a busy week).

My signature is, indeed, a variation of the "wizards" line from Lord of the Rings. I saw a t-shirt or bumper sticker or button somewhere many years ago (long before the movie) and, since I collect love and collect dragons, I liked it. But since I do NOT like ketchup (or catsup), I changed it to mustard. I suspose I could also have used soy sauce, tabasco sauce, or even hollandaise sauce. Mustard was just the first non-ketchup condiment that came to mind. Now that I think of it, hollandaise sause might have been funnier, but it doesn't flow well when spoken.

As for the point of warning people about meddling with something which is presumably nonexistent such as dragons, I think the idea is, in itself, amusing.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[snuv]

Larger scales on dragons such as the back plates are traditionally very resistant to attack, being made from layers of chitin etc, from almost anything except butter, lemon and cayenne pepper.

[look away now]
Because there are no plates like chrome for the hollandaise
[/look away now]

Snuv

"If it could have gone wrong earlier and it didn't, it ultimately would have been beneficial for it to have." : Murphy's Ultimate Corollary

 

[MeGustaXL]

snuv I hope I'm the first of many to say this:

Groooooooaaaaannnnn!

Go to the corner and stay there

Chris

If yer see a Rook on 'is own, im's a Crow. If yer sees a flock o' Crows, them's Rooks - My Uncle Cecil

 

[Welshbird]

[off the point]
My other have gave me a short personality quiz the other day: just two questions: what is your favourite colour? What is your favourite animal?

I answered:

Yellow - cos it reminds me of daffodils - because it's happy and positive and bright and
Dragons - cos they are mythical and fascinating for that reason.

Then she explained that apparently the colour you choose describes yourself, and the animal you choose described your significant other.

I think I am *still* in trouble....
[/off the point]


Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[Trevoke]

Okay.. Where's the joke in snuv's post?

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"