...For you are crunchy and good with mustard 5

[Ladyazh]

I just saw someone's sig that sounded like Tracy's.
Here it is:

Do not trifle with wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light.


Is this from the same treasure box do you think? Is this some way of saying things that have a definition? Please, elaborate if anyone will.

 

[Ladyazh]

Here goes my Original Post:-(

 

[chiph]

My favorite line is from the movie "Zathura", when the giant lizard creatures show up.

Walter: What do they eat?

Astronaut: Meat.

Danny: That's good.

Astronaut: Dude, you're meat.

____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Gooser]

Meddle not in the affairs of the dba, for you're only a DELETE statement away from annihilation.

 

[hilfy]

I used to have a bumper sticker that read: Do not tailgate the Wizard. Violators will be Toad.

-Dell

A computer only does what you actually told it to do - not what you thought you told it to do.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Okay, okay, okay...Ladyazh is probably very disappointed with us by now with our near-hijacking of her thread. Sorry, Lady.

Hilfy's example, above, however, is an excellent example of the play-on-words humour ("...Violators will be Toad...") that this thread is all about.

So, Lady, I suggest that you devise your own plays-on-words, then post them here for your practice and our enjoyment.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[Trevoke]

Don't worry if they're bad. The worst it will be is pun-ishment.

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[gbaughma]

Which reminds me of a GREAT Sci-fi short by Terry Bisson.

They're Made out of Meat

"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

< 2 >


"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."


the end

Just my 2¢

"When I die, I want people to say 'There was a wise man' instead of 'Finally, his mouth is shut!'" --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Ladyazh]

I do not see how
Violators will be Toad
and
Do not trifle with wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light
is the same thing.
It is not to me.

I do not get this. What is the 'wizard' has to do with anything. Is there definition of Wizard beside a brainy man with magical powers?

And I do love British humor btw.

 

[Trevoke]

Wizards can transform people into toads.

"toad" soundsd like "towed" meaning that the car is removed and sent to an impound lot.

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[CajunCenturion]

Ladyazh - They're both plays on words, using multiple definitions and making multiple references.

Let's start with &quot;Do not trifle with wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light.
Trifle has two different definitions in play here. First, a trifle is a dessert based around cake that is soaked in wine, they key for this pun being the fact that it's soaked. Secondly, trifle is also a verb meaning to waste time with. One must also be aware that from an historical perspective, people suspected of being witches and wizards were burned at the stake. So when you bring all three things together, you get the notion of wasting time with wizards (trifle as a verb), soaking them in wine (because trifles are soaked), and because they're soaked, it's hard to burn them at the stake because they're soggy.

The second phrase, &quot;Do not tailgate the Wizard.&quot; is also a pun, based on the homonyms 'toad and 'towed', the power of wizards, and what happens when you use a vehicle illegally. The pun revolves around the phrase &quot;violators will be towed&quot; which is from a parking violation. Tailgating is driving violation, and if you do that to a wizard, then the wizard will turn you into a frog (toad).

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SantaMufasa]

Ladyazh,

"Violators will be Toad" is a play on words that comes from typical parking-restriction signs that cities use: "Violators will be Towed"...it is a "pun": to make an amusing play on words by using words with same/similar pronunciations but very different meanings to convey entertaining/amusing/ironic/off-the-wall messages.

"Do not trifle with wizards...": in this case, the pun is with the word "trifle"...

Main Entry: trifle
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English truflen, triflen, from Anglo-French trufler to trick, talk nonsense
intransitive verb
1 a : to talk in a jesting or mocking manner or with intent to delude or mislead b : to treat someone or something as unimportant
2 : to handle something idly

...then the other meaning of trifle:

Main Entry: tri·fle
Pronunciation: 'trI-f&l
Function: noun...2 : a dessert typically consisting of plain or sponge cake often soaked with wine or spirits (as brandy or rum) and topped with layers of preserves, custard, and cream

In this latter case, the pun derives from our turning the noun, "trifle" (...a moist dessert...) into a verb, meaning "to dip on into the moist dessert".


So, for the statement to be amusing, it doesn't matter whether you use the term "wizard" or any other term, the double entendre of "trifle" is what makes it amusing.

I could have said (just as easily):

Don't trifle with me...I'm alergic to sponge cake and brandy.

...and it still would have been (somewhat) amusing (although some people believe that puns are never amusing...I feel sorry for such people.)




Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[SantaMufasa]

Obivously, John (CC) both thinks faster and types faster than SantaMufasa. I certainly did not intend to "trifle" with John's post by my posting virtually the same thing...I promise that when I began composing my thoughts/response to Ladyazh, that there were no other posts after hers.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[SantaMufasa]

Ladyazh,

Perhaps it would help to reinforce your understanding of this concept (and our seemingly vain attempts to convey the concept), if you could help us native-English speakers understand if "punning" (in your native language/culture) is even a form of amusement/entertainment.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[SantaMufasa]

Stella,

If you are monitoring this thread, and since you and Ladyazh hail from the same country of origin, perhaps you can contribute some insight to this topic (and answers to my most recent questions), as well.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[Stella740pl]

SantaMufasa,

Yes, I am kind of watching it - with a corner of my eye.

As to your most recent question, I can say that yes, punning based on word play and multiple references is a form of amusement/entertainment. It is not exactly what it is in English, due to differences in the language structure and, possibly, cultural differences, but it is used.

The hard part of the language learning (for me, at least) was to understand those references, which sometimes can be linked to some old-days TV shows, nursery rhymes, or anything else I hadn’t been exposed to before. At first, it took me hours of watching TV (I almost don’t watch it now, though), reading fiction, magazines, dictionaries, etc., to start understanding them – and it felt almost as a revelation. Once, when I watched an episode for a second or third time a few years later, I suddenly felt about a particular phrase/joke that I get it now. It was not that good or even tasteful, but the feeling was great, like you are becoming an insider.

I still sometimes enjoy an occasional great explanation made by my boss at work – and all the nice people on this forum.

 

[DirkStruan]

A Wizard's staff has a knob on the end" - popular song title from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Thanks, Stella...your explanation really helps everyone understand the challenges of English-Second-Language (ESL) colleagues who are trying to deal with this type of issue.

It is virtually as though we (native English speakers/culturalists) are unfairly (yet unintentionally) telling "inside jokes" that are (again, unintentionally) preventing ESLs from becoming part of the "In" Crowd that "gets the joke".

I want to make an offer to any ESL colleague, that if there is ever a joke, story, reference, slang, or any other cultural aspect or issue that you either don't understand or that confuses you, I am happily willing to explain it to you, via any medium: Tek-Tips, e-mail, telephone, et cetera. You know how to bring up the issue here at Tek-Tips, and you can reach me by the other methods via my signature, below.



Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[Trevoke]

Expect to hear from me

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[SantaMufasa]

, Trevoke.

I also inadvertently failed to mention that it is my sincere belief that any of our other "Making An Impression" colleagues are probably equally happy to offer their "services" to explain all of these "inside jokes", as well.

Another piece of the explanation that we "explainers" should also be sure to include are, to the best of our knowledge/resources, the derivation of the issue and why (in our opinions) the issue is "funny" or means what it does. (If we don't know the answers, we will find out...with you.).

Another topic in this same vein (although I'm certainly not suggesting that it become part of this thread), that can be confusing and frustrating, even for English-First-Language speakers, are the lyrics and lyric meanings to our modern music fare (e.g., hip-hop, rap, gangsta, et cetera).

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> the derivation of the issue
As in the historical reference to burning witches and wizards at stake which explains how the "soggy and hard to light" phrase comes into play. It's really a clever turn of phrase not only because of the double use of 'trifle', but also due to bringing the historical treatment of wizards into play.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein