Die, Dies, Dice 2

[stackdump]

If you have a die (a casting for example), does it have a plural? So would I have two die?, or two dies? My guess would be two die in the sense that 'die' is singular or plural, so it is like the word baggage.

But... I've also heard people call two die, dice. Which is probably a mishearing of dies.

In terms of a dice (the the square gaming thing you roll), the plural is die. But this is often confused since I hear people say roll the dice when they have two in their hand. I guess the 'ice' part of dice sounds like an 's' which makes it sound like its plural.

I've always suspected that the confusion between dice/die (the gaming thing) and multiple die (a casting or similar) is why some people call multiple castings dice?

 

[stackdump]

I also saw this on Wikipedia, which makes it more complicated;

Note 15: Dies is used as the plural for die in the sense of a mould; dice as the plural (and increasingly as the singular) in the sense of a small random number generator. Dice is also the accepted plural form of die in the semiconductor industry.

So for gaming, a die (singular), dice (singular and plural)
For a mould, a die (singular), dies (plural)
For a semiconductor, die (singular), dice (plural)

 

[snuv]

Rolling a 9 on a six sided dice is not that likely but you can get polyhedral dice with 10,12 or even 20 sides. They tend to use numbers rather than pips and do have to have the six and the nine marked differently

"If it could have gone wrong earlier and it didn't, it ultimately would have been beneficial for it to have." : Murphy's Ultimate Corollary

 

[rjoubert]

I remember those 10,12 and 20 sided dice from playing Dungeons & Dragons in my younger days.

 

[gbaughma]

We have several sets of dungeon dice.

I have D-20's (20-sided), D-10's, D-8's, D-6's, D-4's, and a D-100 (Well, not a true D100... a real D100 has so many sides, it just rolls forever. So, what I have is a clear D10 with another D10 inside of it... the smaller die is the 10's, and the larger outside is the 1's....)

My D-6's don't have an underline or anything on the 6... because, as you said, it's a D-6. Anything larger than a D-8 has underlined 6's and 9's.



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Thadeus]

It's Do-or-Die for an Itamae's Diners
Once a diodon dies, dice it carefully, serve with daikon and it's to die for.
Dicey dicing's a roll of the dice and may result in die-hard diners who face dies irae sine die.

~Thadeus

 

[johnwm]

In the UK I have always used Die as the singular and Dice for the plural for gaming cubes. It appears that OUP supports that usage in the US (

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1O26-dice.html),

but Merriam-Webster appears ambiguous (

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary)

and (

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary)

which appears to give dice as an alternative singular.

Could someone offer reference to Dice as singular and Die as plural please?

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[gbaughma]

Gary Gygax rolled his dice.
But his D-20 die rolled a 1 (fumble).
He dies.

(Sorry if that was in poor taste....)



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[stackdump]

Could someone offer reference to Dice as singular and Die as plural please?

I havent heard die being used as a plural, but dice is often used as a singular. From

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/die

"Using the plural dice as a singular instead of die is considered incorrect by most authorities, but has come into widespread use."

But I think the confusion comes from the following, if I say that I have ten gaming cubes in my hand, do I have ten die in my hand or ten dice? Are both statements valid?

If those ten gaming cubes were all different (size, shape, color, number of sides) then I would be inclined to say 10 die, because I have many unique objects. If they were all identical, I'd be inclined to say I have 10 dice, because I have a collection of identical objects.

This occurs elsewhere in English, because I hear people say they will receive money from multiple sources and will use "the monies" to buy a new thing. If they got money from a single source, then they typically say they will use "the money" to buy a new thing

 

[johnwm]

That may be because 'money' is most often used as a mass noun, while a collection of separate sets of money would use monies as the plural, since the set then became countable and the correct noun usage would be as a countable noun.
I'm not familiar with a sense in which 'die' or 'dice' would be used as a mass noun.

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[ESquared]

Just an aside: countability vs. uncountability is a critical concept in English. It's one of the harder parts of the language for non-native speakers to master.

The pudding needs more banana - uncountable reference to a substance
The pudding needs more bananas - countable reference to a thing

Less egg yolk - uncountable reference to a substance
Fewer egg yolks - countable reference to a thing

It can be quite confusing.

 

[stackdump]

Interesting. So the English changes if the number is quantified (countable). So...

Quantified:
If I have two gaming cubes in my hand and I wanted two more, would I ask for
(a) "two more die"
or
(b) "two more dice"
or is either statement ok?

UnQuantified:
If I have some gaming cubes in my hand and I wanted some more, would I ask for;
(a) "some more die"
or
(b) "some more dice"
or is either statement ok?

 

[johnwm]

I have seen no evidence that die or dice is ever seen as a mass (uncountable) noun. Therefore you should use the plural (dies or dice, depending on the meaning) to refer to more than one of them.

See

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mass noun

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[BobRodes]

I believe that the standards applied to "mouse" and "mice" are analogous to those applied to "die" and "dice".

There, I've said it. Alea iacta est...er...alea iacta sunt...er....

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Regarding ESquared's statement about countability and stackdump's follow up question:

I think the key is that both bananas and egg yolks can be considered either a substance or an individual item.

Neither the gaming cubes nor the tool/mold is ever considered a substance, therefore one should always use the plural form for countable items: dice or dies.

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[stackdump]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I think I finally get it.

 

[gbaughma]

I believe that the standards applied to "mouse" and "mice" are analogous to those applied to "die" and "dice".

OK, then if the plural of "Mouse" is "Mice",
and the plural of "Die" is "Dice"

... then how come the plural of "Spouse" is "Bigamy"?



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[BobRodes]

>how come the plural of "Spouse" is "Bigamy"?
It's irregular.

 

[Stella740pl]

... then how come the plural of "Spouse" is "Bigamy"?
It should be "Spice", shouldn't it? :-D

 

[sleipnir214]

It should be "Spice", shouldn't it?

In the right juridiction, it could be.



Want to ask the best questions? Read Eric S. Raymond's essay "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way". TANSTAAFL!

 

[gbaughma]

Of course, you know the penalty for multiple spouses, don't you?




Multiple mother-in-laws!!!!!





Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com