DeVry 17

[TruthInSatire]

I'm looking into continuing my education. I have nothing but Highschool at this point but am currently doing very well as a self taught programmer. I realize I can't get far or be competative for long without a degree. I'm looking into going to DeVry for the Computer Information Systems (CIS) degree online.

As far as I know DeVry is a favorable place to hold a degree from. In my searching though I've found a bunch of bad press. DeVry the "Degree Mill",

http://www.ihatedevry.com

, credits don't transfer, worthless $60k degree, and so on. I'm thinking most if it is just a bunch of cry baby's that didn't get what they want because they didn't try or they can't sell themselvs or some other extinuating circumstances at DeVry that can't be considered rutine.

On the other hand the first time someone suggested DeVry to me the first thing i thought of was "its a vocational school." I told my dad he said, "you want to be a refrigerator repair man?" Is this how DeVry is thought of by the masses or are we just uneducated? hehe. I know they are accredited but i'm just wondering, after all is said and done, I tell a potential employer i have a degree from DeVry, how will they weigh it?

Thanks!

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
-Douglas Adams (1952-2001)

 

[TruthInSatire]

onyxpurr brings up a good point.

I have many co-workers, not that all are like this, but that are book learned and fail to see the importance of flowcharting, documentation, and planning.

but a good programer would HAVE to seee the importance of
flowcharting, documentation and planning just by nature of programming. that's half of programming. I'd have to argue your co-workers are poor programmers that do it for a paycheck not because they like it or care to be good at it, a degree wouldn't help that.

again i have to express that i think education is very very important. no one is arguing that point. knowledge is power. we've all heard that and i'm sure all agree with it. the problem is the paper that "proves" we're educated few employeers would even look at me even though we're quite capable of doing the job.

If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems.

-Quote by Edward Hodnett

 

[CajunCenturion]

rojas1mg - That is an interesting perspective, but I think you're confusing education with experience. There are a couple of aspects to the classroom that won't be found on the web, and are very unlikely OJT. First, there is the professor and second, there is curriculum direction.

Now I know that everyone has a teacher who shouldn't be teaching, and every rule has an exception, but by and large, having a teacher whose purpose is to teach makes a big difference. Secondly, in the classroom, and again, more so in four year programs than in two year programs, you generally learn more theory, that is why something works rather than just how to do it. You are also much less likely to learn better habits in a classroom. In my 25+ years experience in this industry, I can count on one hand the number of programmers who learned structured programming and employed good software engineering practices who didn't have four year degrees.

Good Luck
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[hilfy]

In my 25+ years experience in this industry, I can count on one hand the number of programmers who learned structured programming and employed good software engineering practices who didn't have four year degrees.

I think this is especially true now, although it wasn't necessarily true in the "early days" of computing.

My dad is a programmer - one of the best in the business at writing things like boot-code and on-board diagnostics that work at a low level with the hardware. He barely graduated from high school, dropped out of trade school after a year and a half and went to work for Univac in St. Paul, MN in 1958 programming missiles on a Defense Department contract. Frequently, he would go into work on Friday evening and wouldn't come home until late Sunday because that's when he could get time on the punch-card machine. He tells stories about translating from assembly to machine code in his head as he was punching cards. I think that having to debug through punch-cards and then wait for someone to "run your deck", which may take hours, teaches things about code structure and planning that you would be hard-pressed to learn in today's environment of instant compile and integrated debuggers.

-Dell

A computer only does what you actually told it to do - not what you thought you told it to do.

 

[CajunCenturion]

In the learly days of computing, the notions of structured programming were just being developed. I have the utmost respect for the pioneers who in the late 50's to late 60's help build the profession and layed the foundations . It was in the mid 60's, give or take, that we first began to see the deployment of block-structured languages which permitted modular development planting the seeds for software engineering. Not just writing programs and developing code, but actually engineering systems, utilizing tried and true engineering practices as applied to software development. You are very right when you say it's especially true now.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[TruthInSatire]

funny you should quote albert einstein who also said.

The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems.

-Quote by Edward Hodnett

 

[CajunCenturion]

bombboy - You are right that Einstein did hate school, yet it should be noted that he did attend it, and that he graduated. One of the reasons that he had disdain for it was that he was bored, and school was holding him back.

So let me add to my previous statement. I can count on one hand the number of programmers who learned structured programming and employed good software engineering practices who didn't have four year degrees. I've yet to meet one person with the genius and intellect of Einstein.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[TruthInSatire]

I wasn't saying that to pick a fight, i just thought it was ironic, and you're right einstein was certinaly an exception to the rule.

If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems.

-Quote by Edward Hodnett

 

[Onyxpurr]

I think either way it comes down to the individual.

A benefit to school, is rather than having to dig through the data yourself, you do have a mentor showing you all the important lessons for a good foundation.

What it did was save me the time of looking around to find everything I was taught in school. I could have tried to self-teach, but I think it would have taken me much longer to learn everything and I might not have covered everything my professors did.

However, above all these, don't forget that it comes down to your ability to take out what you put in. I've met quite a few slackers from school that make me embarrassed to categorize myself as a student with them, however I have seen quite a few students that showed interest and dedication to their schooling and made the most of what school had to offer.

BTW, I love Einstein too.

 

[tweenerz]

Well, let me chime in on my experience and thoughts. I am a DeVry Graduate and a current Keller graduate student.

If you are looking for a career in computer programming, DeVry is a good choice on the surface as far as employers are concerned (in my experience).

It appears you are very serious in you pursuit of education like I was, so let me warn you about one thing (and this applies to DeVry as well as other undergraduate schools): if you attend class during the day, you will feel like you are in high school again. I don't know what you age level is (or maturity for that matter), but I was extremely frustrated by the lack of maturity in the students in the daytime sessions (cheating, plagiarizing, mocking the teacher, etc.). In turn, professors had to cater to that ignorance, which affected my learning.

As for the professors, I would say about 25% of the them were excellent. The rest either didn't know enough of the subject or weren't great at explaining the material. Now I can't compare this to other institutions, though. I'm not the brightest in my field, but I learn very quickly, and I was often impatient at the progression of the classes.

For the most part, it doesn't matter what school you go to (IMHO). What matters is how much effort you put into it which will be evident in the interview room for your next job. If you can find a better institution for the same or less price - it would be a viable option.

One last thing: if you haven't taken any classes at all, I would take your general ed classes at a junior college and transfer the credits over. $25 a unit is a lot better than $300 a unit!

 

[Onyxpurr]

Interesting tweener. At what location did you attend?

I agree with you on day classes. I don't think anyone could pay ME to attend day school at any facility.

I have taken night courses for quite a while at multiple facilities. However, at Devry Phoenix, I took the accelerated and night courses. The students and techers were excellent. I'd say only about 10% of the teachers were bad apples.

However the Phoenix location took the issues you stated very seriously. Our sociology professor even went into detail about how easy he could check if someone plagarized. He will and has thrown students out of school before for plagarizing and for cheating.