Creating a web based db 1

[lkennemur]

Hello, I have a db in Access that needs to be put on the web. I am uncertain of what course I should take because I have no web programming experience. I have not made the decision about working with Access or completely rebuilding the database using different software that would be more compatible with web apps. I need as many suggestions as possible about both options.

Thanks,
Lesley

 

[Pampers]

Splitting a database is cut the database in two "sections" - a front end (fe) and a back end (be). Normal Access combines the front end (let say the forms, reports and vba-script) and the back end (say tables and querys) into one application (mdb). You can split the two sections, isolating the fe and be. Advantage is that you can modify the fe, without interupting the users using the be. Have a look at help for splitting the dbase

Pampers

you're never too young to learn

 

[OnLiner]

cool!

 

[fneily]

Yeah. Basically. You would split your database (open the database. Keep all tables, forms, queries, etc. closed. Click Tools - Database Utilities - Database Splitter). This creates two files - one with just the tables (Backend), the other with queries, forms, macros, etc. (Frontend). They will be linked. You would place the BE on the server. You would then make a replica of your FE (Tools - Replication - Create Replica). You would do this as many times as needed (one for each user). The replicas would then go on each individual client. They then have access to the same data (the tables on the server), but they can do their own individual work (creating forms, queries, etc.). Then once a week or whatever, you can sync the different FE's (Tools -Replication - Synchronize Now). That's a very quick review. It's in any good Access book. It's actually pretty straight forward, and quick to set up.

 

[lkennemur]

Ok, I have found out some details about this project. I do have to make it available for users to input data. I am currently trying to contact our webmaster to find out about servers. Like I stated before, I work on a military arsenal and my abilities are severly limited by many chains of command for approval for anything I do.


fneily - Are you saying that I should convert my Access db to MySql/other software? If so, I will have to receive approval for that. What about DAPs? Could I keep my Access db and use DAPs to make it visible online?

 

[fneily]

Ikennemur - I thought my writings answered your DAP questions. DAP's are an extension of Access. Also, how many people will be accessing your database? 10? 10,000? If it's a small amount try DAP's. If it's alot, use SQL. The choice is yours. I'm just saying it will take a long learning process. The military also has it's own languages.
By the way, your waiting for approval and/or decisions from non-technical people (your bosses). They have no clue about computer databases. They don't know HEX code from a HEX nut. Just start your project. They'll approve it.

 

[OnLiner]

Hi guys you've been a great help!
Yes it is a small operation. Only 150 people on one network server will be using this teeny website. DAP's may be all that's needed since basically they are only accessing html documents really. There is no "web" server to speak of.

But I was curious since I may take this opportunity to learn the big stuff even though its a small scale. Hell I'm geting payed to learn so...

 

[kimmer7389]

Joe have you contacted your local IT department for assitance? I noticed you mentioned your work military. Are you on a military base? If so there should be a Communications group or IT department that can help you.

 

[JediBMC]

DAP's may be all that's needed since basically they are only accessing html documents really. There is no "web" server to speak of.

A little clarification for you, DAP requires a server which will process Active Server Pages (ASP), such as Microsoft Internet Information Server (IIS) 4.0 or greater. You can not simply place the files on a network share and have users connect to the files.

If you are going this route, it may be prudent to learn a little Visual Basic and create the ASP pages your self.

-Brian-
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.

 

[Bullschmidt]

And possibly this may hopefully give you some ideas:

Web Database Concept

http://www.bullschmidt.com/concept.asp

Best regards,
J. Paul Schmidt, Freelance Web and Database Developer

http://www.Bullschmidt.com

Access Database Sample, Web Database Sample, ASP Design Tips

 

[MDTekUser]

If you are going to build a web app, don't even bother with ASP. ASP.NET is a much better option. But beware, web programming is much more complicated than windows programming. As for a database, I'd recommend SQL Server Express. It's a free download. There's also a free download for one year of VB.NET 2005 express edition. Of course this is all predicated on having an IIS 6 web server.

If you have Apache, then PHP would be a better bet for the front end and perhaps mySQL as the database.

Then go searching for some good books/tutorials.

 

[Bullschmidt]

If you are going to build a web app, don't even bother with ASP. ASP.NET is a much better option.

I believe that Web developing with classic ASP is a natural progression from doing stand-alone Access databases with Visual Basic code behind the forms.

And ASP.NET is more like C code (and JavaScript) than Basic.

Best regards,
J. Paul Schmidt, Freelance Web and Database Developer

http://www.Bullschmidt.com

Access Database Sample, Web Database Sample, ASP Design Tips

 

[MDTekUser]

I disagree with that statement because with the Visual Studio IDE you can drag and drop database connections,datasets, controls onto a web form and a great deal of code is written for you behind the scenes. Visual Studio IDE makes it developing web applications very similar to designing windows applications.

I don't know of many web developers who have worked with ASP.NET for any length of time and then wanted to go back to ASP.

VB.NET has basically the same syntax as VB, while adding some object-oriented features.

You can also access sql server databases directly through the server explorer in the VS IDE.

Plus the code in a .net application will be fully compiled, while a vbscript(ASP) is not.

If you're into RAD development, then ASP.NET offers a much better option in my opinion.

 

[lkennemur]

I have been told by the people that will be handling the servers that they will not work with Access. He recommended Oracle or Sql server. I have no training in either and no training in ASP, ASP.Net, or PSP. I will have to get all the help I can get so if anyone knows of a good site for programming help, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks!!

 

[MDTekUser]

This sounds like a great opportunity for you to learn some new technologies and broaden your skill set. Once you decide on your programming language/database, let us know and then we can make recommendations on good tutorials/books.

But for any technology that you may choose, I find O'Reilly and WROX to have some great books.

If you go down the ASP.NET direction, I think Fritz Onion's Essential ASP.NET with VB.NET examples is a great book. This book is ok for beginners and will get you to the intermediate level.

 

[pvsmith5]

Let me suggest something that is quick and easy. I bought an incredible application that let me build an Access database for the web in about 15 minutes--and it works great.

Here's the link:

http://www.asprunner.com/

(By the way--I am not associated with this company other than a user.)

Long and short of it--I have built Access databases for the web for about 5 years. This little application does it right and fast, and elminates hours of coding and testing.

 

[JediBMC]

I have been told by the people that will be handling the servers that they will not work with Access.

This information sounds somewhat erroneous. The server will only need to be able to support ODBC connections to MS Access, something that is inherent in all Microsoft servers. The server does not need any special configuration, nor does it need to have MS Access installed.

None the less, if they do not want you to put a MS Access database on their server, SQL is the next step up. Using the MS Access Upsizing Tool, you can either migrate your existing MS Access database to a SQL server or create a new SQL database.

Once the database has been created on the SQL server, the hard part is over. Creating an ASP page is actually pretty simple to do with a little VB knowledge and a little HTML knowledge. One of the best resources available is W3 Schools. They have tutorials on just about every type of

http://www development

language.

Unless you have calculations which the form will need to do, the creation is as simple as:
[ol A]
[li]Creating a connection to the SQL Server.[/li]
[li]Retrieving the record set you want to display or update.[/li]
[li]Displaying your data or providing a form to input/update your data.[/li]
[/ol]

Whether you choose to use ASP.NET or ASP and VB.NET or VB, the process becomes amazingly simple once you get the hang of it, so don’t be discouraged.




-Brian-
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.

 

[MDTekUser]

The simple truth is that a lot of database admins or network admins don't want to support Microsoft Access because there is a belief that is not a stable environment for corporate data.

I worked for a large financial corporation that issued a mandate that no corporate data would be allowed in Microsoft Access databases, so everything had to be migrated to SQL Server or MSDE.

For the type of application you are creating, I don't think Access would be the right choice, so heed their advice and use SQL Server since you already have access to it. It will be a lot easier for you to learn than Oracle.

I have used the Access upsizing wizard extensively and I have found that it is a great tool to get your table data into SQL Server. Validation rules, indexes, relationships get upsized to SQL Server fairly seamlessly. However, because Access SQL is quite different from T-SQL (SQL Server), you end up having to in many cases rewrite your existing Access queries. For example, T-SQL doesn't support crosstabs so you will have to create those in a different manner in SQL Server.

 

[fneily]

Ikennemur - in my first post I mentioned that most of the IT departments I've dealt with will try to talk you out of DAP's. As you stated - "I have been told by the people that will be handling the servers that they will not work with Access." I'm not suprised. They also didn't mean the servers won't work with Access, they meant they have no idea that Access works on them. Again, lack of training.
Also, I agree that this is a good learning opportunity.

 

[lkennemur]

Thank you for the feedback. The next question I have is this: Is ASP free to download? This is very important because everything I need has to be free because I will not receive any funding at all.

Thanks,

Lesley

 

[MDTekUser]

ASP is free and requires no download. Some of the essentials you need are:

1- Access to an IIS Web Server (ensure all the patches and updates are loaded on this machine)

2- Designer for creating your .asp pages. Some diehards like me use a basic text editor like WordPad, then save the file as an .asp extension. A better environment would be Microsoft Visual Interdev, which also allows you to post your pages to a web server. Or you can try one of these free web text editors at :

http://www.thefreecountry.com/webmaster/htmleditors.shtml