Correct use of apostrophes.

[ESquared]

I much prefer plurals that do not use apostrophes, even for numbers, acronyms, initialisms, or single letters.

As, Bs, and Cs. CDs and DVDs. 1s, 10s, and 100s. The 1980s. The '80s. Mind your Ps and Qs.

vs.

A's, B's, and C's. CD's and DVD's. 1's, 10's, and 100's. The 1980's. The '80's. Mind your P's and Q's.

What do you all prefer? Without the apostrophe just seems more RIGHT to me. Note how ugly '80's is and that 80's is just plain wrong... more ugly than Ps and Qs are.

 

[Grenage]

How about 1980s'?

But yes, I agree with you completely.

 

[ESquared]

1980s' ?

What is the function of the apostrophe in that construction? One' may' as' well' put' apostrophes' in' any' old' place' if' they' don't' mean' anything.'

The point of writing '80s is that the apostrophe holds the position of the elided numbers. There are no elided characters in 1980s' and I suspect you weren't making it possessive.

 

[Grenage]

Sorry, my attempts at sarcasm with the written word generally fall flat on their faces. /grin

What I was trying to say was that 1980s' would surely be as correct (or incorrect in this case) as 1980's. There need not be an apostrophe at all; it is not a contraction and as you say, it is not posessive.

 

[TonyJollans]

Hi ESquared,

I agree completely with what you say and write the same way myself. All of your examples are plurals, although not all can be used in the singular. All of your examples are also cases where character strings - either acronyms or numerics - which are not proper words are being used as words.

Your use of '80s interests me, though. I would write it that way but I'm not quite sure why. I would not write the 'eighties so why should I use an apostrophe when using the numeric form?

Enjoy,
Tony

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[Katy44]

surely '80s indicates that something is missing - i.e. the "19"?
The use of 80's, CD's and LP's really annoys me!

 

[ESquared]

Would you say "the eighties" or would you say "The Eighties?"

I contend that it is a proper noun and when used this way everyone knows that one means "The [Nineteen-]Eighties," 1980 to 1989, as opposed to simply referring to the numbers 80 to 89. In the case of "The '80s" there is no way to capitalize to suggest the missing word/numbers, so the apostrophe does the job.

I'm of course making this up on the spot, but it sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Stella740pl]

ESquared,

I agree with everything you said (As, Bs, and Cs. CDs and DVDs. 1s, 10s, and 100s. The 1980s. The '80s. Mind your Ps and Qs.)
But there are some cases about which I am not so sure. Say, this morning (and every morning) I passed a store with an ad in the window, in ALL CAPITALS:

TOP 100 CD'S ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

or something to this effect.

If it's in capitals, how would you separate CD from S? Or would you at all? Would you understand an ad with TOP 100 CDS in it?

 

[ESquared]

I would make the ess lower case:

TOP 100 CDs ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

Anyway, I DETEST the use of all capitals and do my best to never use them... except for emphasis on single words when I'm feeling too lazy to use markup or the medium doesn't support any markup. Hehe.

A typographer will tell you that all capitals is harder to read because there is less differentiation between letters (for example, there are no ascenders and descenders). I never really appreciated signs that have to YELL their message at me, either.


As a side note, I think it's interesting that a CD is a physical piece of plastic... but it's also a particular release containing a certain set of information. The sign you mentioned is using the latter meaning; they are not saying that only 100 sales are available, they are saying that many physical instances of 100 particular releases are available.

I've noticed something similar with "movie." Have you seen a movie if you've merely seen the medium which contains it, such as the DVD disc? Have you seen the movie if you've viewed one second of its video? Have you seen the movie if you watched most of it but left before the credits finished?

Maybe I'm just noticing different cases of metonymy. If someone is looking through his stack of DVDs and says, "I can't find my favorite movie!" everyone will know he means "the DVD which contains my favorite movie." Hmmm.

 

[sleipnir214]

I think that in the case of:

TOP 100 CD'S ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

the apostrophe should not be there at all -- we're talking plurals, not the genitive case. Whether you write it as

TOP 100 CDS ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

or

TOP 100 CDs ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

is probably more of a stylistic question -- the capital S would be correct simply because the entire phrase is in capitals. In either case, CD is not being used as an abbreviation, but rather as a word derived from an abbreviation.

The sources I've read state that had the abbreviation been used with the periods, the apostrophe should be used:

TOP 100 C.D.'S ARE ALWAYS ON SALE

(again, with an capital S because the entire line is in all-capitals)


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[entaroadun]

I would argue that the moment you abbreviate a phrase into an acronym, you are effectively using that construction as a word, whether or not you include periods.

Without periods:
10 lasers

With periods:
10 l.a.s.e.r.s

Does the apostrophe add any meaning?
10 l.a.s.e.r.'s

It's unnecessary and adds no meaning. It can be cut.

In standard daily usage, we should be as concise as possible.

Art is an exception, as e e cummings would attest.

 

[sleipnir214]

entaroadun:

The sources I've read state that

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[entaroadun]

sleipnir, it was not a criticism or a rebuttal towards you, but towards the source you are citing.

 

[sfi]

Shouldn't it be "the '80's" since the complete thing actually is "the period 1980 a.d. to 1989 a.d", or perhaps "the decade starting in 1980 a.d."?

 

[ESquared]

No, it shouldn't be

The '80's

It should be

The '80s

Since we all recognize that one does not use apostrophes to make something plural.

 

[sha76]

OK, I'm happy with apostrophes with esses and with clear abbreviations, but I'm stuck on this one.
I will use "to cc" as a verb, put how do I put it into the past tense? Looking at prevoius posts, I could consider c.c.'ed (c.c.'d?) as I am abbreviating carbon copied, but then I'd never write c.c., so it becomes inconsistant.
Thoughts on both technical correctness & clarity would be welcome!

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[Grenage]

I sent John Smith a CC"?

 

[sha76]

Trying to say "E-mails to be cc’ed to John Smith" as a brief action point from a meeting.
(Yes, I do know that's not perfect tense, but in this case I believe it will work the same)
I guess I could use "Cc e-mails to John Smith" or "It was agreed to cc e-mails to John Smith", but I'm not really happy with either.

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[Grenage]

I would be in favour of your last example:

"It was agreed to cc e-mails to John Smith"

I guess it's a matter of taste.

 

[TonyJollans]

I wouldn't use cc (which, incidentally, stands for clear copy) as a verb at all in writing, I would use copy.

If you must use it I would think cc'd (from which there is surely an e missing) would be as close to correct as you could get.

Enjoy,
Tony

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