College vs. Certs. 14

[Outlaw420]

I have been talking about going back to college and getting some type of degree in computers. I have friends in the field and they are telling me that college is all fine a dandy but where i really need to look is certifications. Is this a true statement? Do i really need to spend the time and money on college or save alot and go with company that can teach me then give me the certs.?

 

[MasterRacker]

This has been discussed many times, both in this forum and forum654. Read some of the past threads and you'll get plenty to think about.

[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/sub]

 

[kHz]

Not this question again!!??!!

PLEASE, look at all the information yourself and come to your own conclusion.

 

[Outlaw420]

Thanks for your input kHz!!!
in a bad mood are we???

 

[EBGreen]

Searching in
My own development as a professional Forum
forum654

Turned up at least 85 hits. I've picked some of the best:
thread654-725874 - Is college worth the money in IT?
thread654-653211 - Specifically with regard to online programs
thread654-545757 - Are certs really that useful in getting a job?
thread654-540768 - Advice to someone just getting started.
thread654-66653 - More advice to someone just getting started.
thread654-78843 - Person with a degree wondering about certs.
thread654-19508 - Person with a non IT degree wondering if they should get one.
thread654-8908 - Degree vs MCSD certification?
thread654-8032 - MCP or Degree

I did not do this so much as a service as to point out why kHz posted what he/she did. You essentially asked a question that no one else can answer for you but that has been answered many times and all those answers were available from a 30 second search.


[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[langleymass]

Speaking as someone who has worked hard to get certifications and then seen them count for nothing, I do not advise that certifications are the way to go. Although it has now been five years since I got a certification, mainly because I was so badly burned when I did.

 

[Outlaw420]

thanks Tom all i was trying to point out is he didn't have to be so rude about it.
I was taught that the only dumb question is the one you don't ask so therefore i asked. So flame me all you like for it i really coundn't care less. I was looking for advise and took the advise of MasterRacker and was doing the exact same thing you did.
I now understand this question has been asked alot and if i would have had that information to begin with this thread would be non-existant. But being rude to someone for asking a question is not needed nor helpful in anyway.

Thanks

 

[dennisbbb]

Let's continue onward shall we.

Speaking personally, my BA degree from an accredited university NEVER EXPIRES and will follow me to the grave. So a degree is a "permanent certification".

On the other hand, Certification WILL EXPIRE.

For example: MCSE 2003 will expire once Windows Vista server comes out. You will be too embarrassed to mention your old certs on your resume to apply for a job anyway. Just simply ask those with MSCE WinNT 4.0.

IMO, if you can only get one or the other, get a degree for life, if time and money allows; otherwise, get a certification which will expire on the next coming version of servers. The best is to definitely get ALL.

 

[CajunCenturion]

If you want a piece of paper to hang on the wall, get a certificate. If you want an education, go to college.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[TStriker]

Lee Iacocca's autobiography contains another possible answer to this question.

For some of you younger folks, Mr. Iacocca started as a lowly engineer at Ford Motor Company and quickly rose through the ranks to the highest levels in the company. He eventually was let go by Ford for political reasons according to him but was soon at the helm of Chrysler which is where he became a household name largely because of his television commercials that were aimed at selling the "new" Chrysler to the public.

I read his book many years ago but what stuck with me is the fact that he attributed his success to Dale Carnigie training. This training is all about public speaking, personal communications and interactions.

Your thoughts?

-Striker

 

[Outlaw420]

I thank you for your advice
all of it has been helpful along with the material that was already here. Your time and patience with me is appreciated.

Thanks again.

 

[Glenn9999]

Let me just say that the value of any kind of college or certs depends on the value the employer places upon them. So basically you are making choices with the hope that your current employer (if you have one) and your future employers will see them as valuable. As it is said, your mileage will vary. One employer might value certifications over college because they've happened to see a fair number of college graduates that couldn't perform the most basic of functions and they feel the certifications are an "insurance" that the person does know what they're doing. The other might value college more for other reasons. And that value will extend to specific colleges or specific certifications, depending on the reputations of the colleges and certs in question.

So keeping that in mind, the choice depends on the perceived value of whatever the choices are you are considering. For example, a state school might teach a subject just as well as a Harvard, but a Harvard is always going to carry more weight (and salary) with people. Likewise, if your college happens to be thought of as a joke by most, it'll be as you never had the degree at all. Personally I know I haven't gotten much value out of the college I've gotten (a state school), simply because I don't think I see a general respect for it out of any of the employers.

So shop around, and shop around as to what perceptions are of what you are considering.

 

[johnpoole]

both help and it depends on a lot of factors, i perfer certs, but i don't have my sites on prez, just the best i can be in my field. i don't like meetings, (or most people) i get along with software, i would trade a masters for a ccie, a ccie will not push you up the corp ladder, a mba can help their. you can make 6 figures without the 4 year investment, but you need more then just the paper, you need to get real good at your chosen field..jmo

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[Kozusnik]

It really depends on what you want to do.

I went to college for Pre-med Biology and Math (I don't even own a pocket protector I wasted 5 years and never finished either degree.

For the past 5 years, I've been a Systems Analyst at a local hospital specializing in AS/400, VMS, AIX, Linux, HL7 interfacing, about 12 programming languages, databases, etc. Prior to that, I was a System Operator for 3 years. The hospital sent me to training on the Interface Engine we use, but that's it. I have no certifications on any of the machines or OSs I support. I am the only person that knows all of the systems. (When I use the word system, I don't support M$ --- not a real system in my book)

I also take part in the hiring of new Sys Admins. It depends on what I'm looking for at the time as to which applicant will get the job.

Unfortunately, for many young people, experience ranks higher than any education or certification.

But back to my first statement. If you want to be a programmer, go to college. Take all of the programming courses. If you want to support M$ or networking, get your MCSE and Cisco certs. If you want to be a Sys Admin on mainframe or midrange servers, take an entry level position and work your way up.

Good luck,
Mark

 

[Stella740pl]

TStriker,

Lee Iacocca's autobiography contains another possible answer ...
Mr. Iacocca started as a lowly engineer...

Are you sure this answer is the third, not mentioned before, option? If he started as an engineer (and not a technician or like), even a lowly one, he must have had a college degree in engineering already.

It's nowadays they call everyone an engineer. A maid could be called domestic help engineer, for goodness sake. But an engineer for Ford Motor should have been really an engineer.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Lee Iacocca earned a Bachelor's degree in Industrial Engineering from Lehigh University and a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering from Princeton.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Stella740pl]

Thanks, CajunCenturion. Just what I thought.
Even if Mr.Iacocca attributed his success to Dale Carnegie training, he still needed to get a degree first. And it was an advanced degree from reputable schools, too.

 

[johnherman]

Why decide - get BOTH.

-------------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

 

[OrionStar]

A college degree may get you in the door, which is half the battle, but then you will be expected to perform and performance is the name of the game.

Hands on experience is the key. Make your choice...and get going at getting the hands on experience. Stop dragging your feet. Provide quality work, and quality communication skills.

It's ENTIRELY up to the INDIVIDUAL,...NOT the degree.

No degree required in this day and age.



Thanks:

MV

"What would you attempt to do... if you knew ... you could not fail?

 

[CajunCenturion]

==>No degree required in this day and age.
That depends on what you want to do, and where you want to take your career.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein