Chinese "writing system" 3

[ESquared]

When reading a thesaurus entry for language today, I saw an interesting note:

[ul]Notes: don't use 'language' when you mean 'writing system' - Chinese is a spoken language with no characters; the Chinese writing system uses thousands of characters[/ul]

So do you think saying "I can speak, read, and write Chinese" is truly incorrect? One has to say "I can speak Chinese, and read and write the Chinese writing system?

 

[KenCunningham]

...particularly of the bad variety no doubt!

 

[AnotherHiggins]

I like to boast that I'm a multi-lingual illiterate.

There are tons of languages I don't know.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[2ffat]

<Semi-off topic joke>
Q: What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
A: Trilingual

Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A: Bilingual

Q: What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
[hide]An American[/hide]


James P. Cottingham
-----------------------------------------
[sup]I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229![/sup]

 

[gbaughma]

I know enough of just about every language to get slapped in any language.



Just my 2¢
"Life gets mighty precious when there's less of it to waste." -Bonnie Raitt "Nick of Time"
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[AnotherHiggins]

I, at one time, could say, "Where's the beer" in about a dozen languages.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[xwb]

How would a Spaniard read 123?
How would a German read it?
How would you read 123?

Chinese/Japanese/Hanja (Korean) is the similar: the writing stays the same, the meaning stays the same but the spoken sound is completely different.

 

[RCorrigan]

The (English) Times gave away a "Mandarin Chinese Conversation" CD yesterday

The Times



<Do I need A Signature or will an X do?>

 

[GwydionM]

Following from what xwb said, in both China and Turkey, I've seen shop keepers use a calculator display to communicate a price.

Of course most cultures have their own way of writing numerals, but the West European system has become generalised. Adapted from the Arabic version of a Hindu system, of course.

------------------------------
An old man who lives in the UK

 

[sha76]

Gwydion, I've bartered over a taxi fare in Poland by typing numbers into the drivers mobile phone. This was after spending some time stood in the middle of the street miming aeroplanes! (Ended up back up to his original price anyway, after him putting so much time & effort into understanding me)

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[Thadeus]

but we all use the same writing system. <grin>

Don't tell those 'L33T' people or those mobile txt'rs about having one writing system... it goes in one headphone and out the other.

~Thadeus

 

[sleipnir214]

sha76, GwydionM:
Back in the mid 70s my 11-year-old self once spent 45 minutes haggling in a Hong Kong store over the price of an item. I and the ancient Chinese man behind the counter spent the first 25 minutes debating the currency we would use then the following 20 minutes haggling over price.

If we had a language in common, I have no idea what it would be. We debated currency through the expedient of dramatic acting and pointing to a world map he had under the glass of his countertop. (He haughtily indicated at the first that he wanted me to pay in U.S. dollars and I immediately countered by expressing my necessity of being light of pocket and my desire to pay in Singapore dollars: we eventually compromised on Aussie dollars.)

We debated price by melodramatics and shifting beads back and forth on his abacus.

I had a blast.


All:
What language to folk in China use for text messaging? Would I be correct to assume English?


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[xwb]

No - they use pin-yin for text messaging. The motorola phones show them the characters and they select.

 

[herkiefan]

My twin brother and I invented our own language when we where just babies. My parents have home vidoes of us speaking this crazy twin-speak and being able to understand each other.

The only word I remember, and still use with Matt, is "umma" meaning skateboard.

I guess it is quite common for twins to make up their own language.

“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.”-Albert Einstein

 

[Grenage]

Chinese use ideograms, symbols for an ideas. The symbol gives no clue about the word used for the idea.

The Japanese borrowed Chinese ideograms, but also invented two phonetic systems, one for Japanese words and another mostly for foreign words. (Don't ask me why, they did, see here for more details.)

Yup. I've been learning Japanese for quite a while now, through classes and home study. It's a pretty logical language, and pretty easy to learn - until you get to the Kanji (Chinese symbols). You need to know so many to read a newspaper, it's just painful.

Damn efficient reading once you do have it down, though!

Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[Lunatic]

Grenage

Kanji efficient? I guess I never made it to that point. At most I think I knew 120, only 1,880 more until I could read the newspaper. And then there are all the combinations of Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana. With each combination, modfiying the meaning and pronunciation of that Kanji. Do you use the Japanese prounciation or the Chinese (which isn't actually the pronunciation the Chinese use, they just call it that), and then which one of the Japanese or Chinese?

Personally, my experience with Nihongo was frustration mixed with confusion mixed with despair. All in equal parts.

***

Another interesting note, the modern form of Hiragana (the base alphabet system) actually has different sounds and characters than the one used 5 or 6 centuaries ago.

The name of one of my host brothers was Kohki. The 'h' by itself (because Ko and ki are both other characters, leaving only the 'h' by itself) doesn't exist anymore. The 'h' (or maybe it was the koh) fell out of use between somepoint in the past and now ;-p


***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[Grenage]

Not very easy to remember, but it's more efficient once you know them. I'm under the impression that you might have studied the language for longer than me, so in another year I might well be at the "frustration mixed with confusion mixed with despair" stage. At the moment I'm still in the "It's very beautiful and interesting" stage. /grin

Do you still dabble with it at all?

Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[KenCunningham]

Ah Grenage, exactly the two stages one experiences in a marriage also ;-)

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[Lunatic]

Grenage

Unfortunately no, I don't have time. I still try asking myself questions from time to time in it and get frustrated and little bits here and there float away.

The history of the language and learning about the language is something I found fascinating, but I've never found learning the language fascinating. But that is mostly due to me. I'm horrible when it comes to languages.

Another tid-bit, there was the comment that in the Chinese ideogram system, the ideogram doesn't reflect the word it is supposed to represent. I can't speak for Chinese, and obviously it couldn't be true for every Kanji character, but many Kanji characters do a fair representation (at least as fair as star constelations) of representing the concept they are trying to show.

Examples are

hi (fire) which looks kind of like an upside down Y, which does look similar to a fire.

hito (person) which does look like a stick figure person

kawa (river) which takes a little vision but does look a little like running water.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[Grenage]

I noticed that when looking at the days of the week in Kanji, a little while ago. Most appear completely irrelevant; I can't help wonder if they were at the time of conception.

Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[tk808]

The name of one of my host brothers was Kohki. The 'h' by itself (because Ko and ki are both other characters, leaving only the 'h' by itself) doesn't exist anymore. The 'h' (or maybe it was the koh) fell out of use between somepoint in the past and now ;-p

I think you refer to "passport hepburn-style" romaji. "h" only represents that it's elongated---in this case ??. For the other main styles, kunrei and hepburn, they use the macro or circumflex if available.

oh, I vaguely remember that the days of the week represented some celestial calendar thing...or was it each planet in our solar system is represented by each of those: sun, moon, fire, water, tree, etc. I forgot...maybe someone can chime in.