Chinese "writing system" 3

[ESquared]

When reading a thesaurus entry for language today, I saw an interesting note:

[ul]Notes: don't use 'language' when you mean 'writing system' - Chinese is a spoken language with no characters; the Chinese writing system uses thousands of characters[/ul]

So do you think saying "I can speak, read, and write Chinese" is truly incorrect? One has to say "I can speak Chinese, and read and write the Chinese writing system?

 

[traingamer]

The differenct Chinese dialects (two of which are Mandarin and Cantonese) are very dissimiliar, but they use the same characters for their written language. The two written characters used for (the country of) China are pronounced zhong guo (middle country) in Mandarin, but differently in Cantonese. (Don't know any Cantonese so can't say more).

I can read and write a little Chinese and speak some Mandarin.

Greg
"Personally, I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught." - Winston Churchill

 

[ESquared]

Thank you! That makes sense.

 

[sleipnir214]

The Discovery Channel recently showed their miniseries "Discovery Atlas", one episode of which covered China. One remarkable datum I recall from the China episode was that China has 8 major languages and many minor ones, but they all use the same writing system.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[SantaMufasa]

China has 8 major languages and many minor ones, but they all use the same writing system.

Kinda like in the U.S. where we have 8 major languages (Southern, Midwestern, DownEastern, Bostonian, Bronxian, Joisey, Utahnics, Ebonics, and Valley) and many minor ones, but we all use the same writing system. <grin>


Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[pinkgecko]

I will give a limited number of Utahnic Language classes for the small price of $100 per hour. Please contact me for more information.

[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[SantaMufasa]

I will give a limited number of Utahnic Language classes...

I would have thought that DelMarVan was your language of choice rather than Utahics. Do you hail (pronounced "hell" in Utahnics) from these here parts?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[traingamer]

Don't forget UPer (pronounced OOPer) for the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Or Pitsburghese, "Yunz (you'uns) go redd up your rooms while I go get some jumbo at the grocery store."

Greg
"Personally, I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught." - Winston Churchill

 

[pinkgecko]

I hell from Lay'un, just south of Weber Crick.

[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[Lunatic]

Geez, Japanese is about the opposite of Chinese then. There is typically one spoken language (though there is some slight variation in some parts like Kyoto and Nikko), but there are three alphabets of 120+ characters to 7-10 thousand characters (although they are used in conjuction with each other)

Languages never cease to amaze me... or baffle me.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[SantaMufasa]

PinkGecko,

Oh my heck...I'd never a' thunk it! Lay'uns jus' wes'uh thuh flippin' Wasatch Mouw'uns, North 'uh Sahlake Ci'ee. Oofer fun ! Ha'cum ya' left?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[IknowMe]

<-- Fluent in Utahnics, Lived here all my life, cept when I wuzn't.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[xwb]

Chinese, the language translates into two possible words in Chinese: "han yu" - the spoken language and "han wen" - the written language.

Common translation mistake is to say someone spoke "han wen".

Some languages don't have a written form eg baby language. Others don't have a spoken form - we just read them in English.

 

[GwydionM]

Chinese use ideograms, symbols for an ideas. The symbol gives no clue about the word used for the idea.

The Japanese borrowed Chinese ideograms, but also invented two phonetic systems, one for Japanese words and another mostly for foreign words. (Don't ask me why, they did, see here for more details.)

China contains lots of languages, with Mandarin the majority tongue. This includes what are called 'dialects', common descendants of Tang-Dynasty Chinese. Cantonese may be closer to the original tongue and Hakka closer still. But they can't understand each other, any more than the English and Dutch can, though they both descend from a common original.

Minority peoples may speak very different and unrelated languages.

There are also several different systems of simplification for Chinese ideograms,

------------------------------
An old man who lives in the UK

 

[mmerlinn]

Ideograms are ideal for China. The same ideogram has the same meaning in all of the Chinese languages & dialects, even though the most of the words they represent in the various languages are mutually incomprehensible.

Most likely the single most important reason China is one single country with many languages is that through the ideogram system of writing they become a single entity. If they had used a system like ours, China as we know it probably would not exist. In fact, what we know as China would most likely be a hodge-podge of different countries like Europe is today, separated by both language and writing.


mmerlinn

"Political correctness is the BADGE of a COWARD!"

 

[rjoubert]

Like the Japanese, Koreans also borrow from the Chinese ideograms, even though they have their own alphabet. They also have their own pronounciation of the Chinese ideograms.

 

[Lunatic]

rjoubert

More precisely, the Koreans borrowed from the Chinese (from 30,000 characters to roughly 15,000-ish) and then the Japanese borrowed from the Koreans (from 15,000-ish to 10,000-ish). Though don't try telling that to the Japanese.

GwydionM
Actually, there are 3 character systems. Hiragana, which is the 'alphabet' for native Japanese words. Katakana, which is the 'alphabet' for non-native words (such as Spanish words like 'pan' for bread or English worlds like milk [or miruku as its spelled/pronounced in Japanese, even though they already have a native workd for milk, gyunyu])

And then there is Kanji which is the ideogram writting system. So a child growing up learns Hiragana and Katakana and then as they grow older (second grade or so) they start to learn Kanji which mostly replaces Hiragana, but not completely because each Kanji can have a different pronunciation based on context and whether it is immediately after a Kanji or Hiragana character.

Its a wonder anyone can read or write in Japanese... Its an amazing and complex system.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[Welshbird]

I have enough trouble with English..

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[Lunatic]

willif

I tell everyone I'm try-lingual. I've tried to learn 3 languages and failed at all of them (English, Spanish, and Japanese)

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[Welshbird]

I try lots of languages!

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]