back to school 2

[jasek78]

I am currently stuck in a dead-end job not even in IT, after obtaining a 2 year Associates of IT degree (a jack of all IT degree, I learned a little of everything). I've obtained 3 different IT positions the first 2 years after I graduated. Now, I've decided that, in order to further my career and life goals, I need to continue my education. I'm looking to telecommute the coursework if I cannot find a local (between Milwaukee, WI and Chicago, IL) college. I would like to either get into Business Administration or focus on Database and Software Development, possibly learning mel scripting for Maya. Does anyone have any suggestions as far as a particular school is concerned?

thanks!

Jason

 

[Onyxpurr]

Okay, what I don't understand first of all is why you need to belittle my education at all. Does this make you feel better? Does it make you look more professional?

Second of all my Devry experience was no high school education. I worked my butt off and learned a lot. Most of my professors had impressive degree and work experience, not to mention that they too work in addition to teaching school.

Most of the HR or IT personnel that I have spoke to highly regard my Devry degree.

I had hands on experience and general education. I finished my degree with a real world application in working with a customer who owned their own business. And no, it wasn't a friend.

Mock as you may, perhaps the gentlemen you speak of simply didn't put in the effort, but my degree was well worth the extra money.

(And please don't start out a paragraph intended to be completely disrespectful with "no offense" because it is)

 

[RileyCat]

Onyxpurr -- I'm sorry if my comments offended you or any others.

I'm glad to hear that you had a successful tenure at DeVry. I am of the mindset that a student can only get out of an education that which they put into their education. Regardless if somebody attends a technical school, major university, or some other form of alternative education, a measure of a persons success is not fully determined by their source of education. Instead, it is the ability of the person to learn, grow, mature, and develop professional and career skills through that education.

I have met people who have a degree from DePaul who don't deserve to be in the professional work force. Meanwhile, I know of several people who graduated with degrees from smaller and lesser known centers of higher education who are more successful than some people who graduated from major universities such as DePaul, Northwestern, or Harvard.

I have nothing against any form of education. In my experience, after attending DeVry and CLC in the past myself, I did not feel challenged or rewarded by the educational opportunities. For that reason, I decided that DeVry was not suitable for my educational needs. To this is what my original comment was meant to be addressed -- not to any single or group of persons. Again, I apologize if my comments regarding DeVry were in any way deflamatory of any persons experience at the educational center other than my own.

Meanwhile, I chose to go to UOP-Online because it meets my needs. My employer is among the Forbes top 10 employers or businesses and they openly support degrees obtained from UOP Online. Personally, I think it says a great deal about the university when a major leading corporation publicly acknowledges and accepts degrees from the university. I did not begin attending UOP Online without first completing a great deal of research -- research on my needs, costs, accreditation, recognition, and the type of committment I would be required to make to attending classes.

Saying this, I would hope that others in this and other threads who have chosen to degrade and belittle students or graduates of UOP will be a little more open minded and accepting of diversity in the world of education.

Thank you.

 

[screwloose]

RileyCat, I would not be tarnishing someone’s achievement of attaining a degree from DeVry.

In my view, your “attendance” of UoP is comparable to buying a degree (at a ridiculously overpriced tuition.) I place NO educational merit in a 100% online degree from a for-profit organization like UoP, and I would place a greater value upon an Associate’s Degree than someone “earning” a bachelor’s degree from UoP.

As for UoP’s “graduate” school, as far as I am aware they do not require someone to take the GMAT for acceptance into the MBA program. Sounds like they are certainly trying to get the cream of the crop .

 

[Onyxpurr]

screwloose, I don't know about that.

I know several people who went to UofP, and one who taught. The only reason I decided not to attend was the mandatory teams through out the programs that seemed to hinder people's eduation (because of the rest of the team members) as opposed to help.

Also, I used to hold this conception about online courses until I had to take one. I'm going for my Master's and decided this semester I'd try an online course.

Man, is it hard!! As opposed to just doing homework a couple nights a week, I feel I'm online every single night!! It takes a lot of work to take a course online and very difficult without the ability to talk personally to the instructor one on one like in a classroom environment.

 

[screwloose]

It is hard for me to believe that one can attain a comparable education through a 100% online program compared to a classroom environment.

Some classes conceivably can be taught via the internet, however, there are some classes that would preclude that option. I earned my maaster's degree and would not change that experience to an online experience. Plus, as noted, it is difficult without the classroom.

I also know of someone who is getting a law degree from an online school (Concord(e)?) from CA. There was no LSAT requirement, and the entrance was/is cakewalk compared to a traditional law school admissions. It seems impossible to complete an online law degree in the same time it takes one to go full-time for 3 years in a classroom. And to have attained the same knowledge, too.

 

[Onyxpurr]

screwloose, I somewhat disagree.

I think it comes down to, once again, comparing the school itself. Of course, there are tons of online programs that are ridiculous. It seems that you're paying money more for the paper than the education.

However, I hold firm by my opinion that sometimes online courses can be harder than in class.

I do get feedback from my instructor and discuss the subject in a forum-like environment. So I get the interaction, just not in a typical environment.

 

[screwloose]

If I would have taken my “Measurement & Evaluation in Teaching” or “Curriculum Development” classes online versus the traditional classroom method I don’t believe I would have gained as much because of the knowledge and instant feedback from my instructor (who had a EdD and public school teaching/admin exp. as well as 20+ years in higher education teaching/admin).

Some sections of the Measurement class had me writing/rewriting testing instruments till I wanted to “cry uncle,” and the Curriculum class with the instant knowledge and anecdotal situations couldn’t or may wouldn’t have carried the same weight through an online class.

My “Educational Research in Teaching” class is one that could reasonably have been taken online, however, I feel I gained more interacting with others in class and getting instant feedback on my hypothesis (another “do it again” scenario) was invaluable.

But I will add that what a student puts into their education is particularly important regardless if it is online or in a classroom.

 

[MattGreer]

Some respectable universities/colleges are offering Masters programs via distance learning. Carnegie-Mellon is one, Columbia is another (that I have researched). They both offer Masters in Computer Science, and CM offers an IT-type as well.

I do not thing that these institutions would offer such programs if they felt that the students were not getting an education that would represent them (them being the institutions) well out in the real world.

Or at least, I'd like to believe that!

Thanks!!


Matt

 

[CajunCenturion]

I tend to agree MattGreer that CMU and Columbia's distance learning programs would be on par with the standards of their in house programs. It would be quite revealing to compare the CMU requirements for a distance learning MSCS against those for a distance learning MSCS from UoP. Not just in terms of the curicculum, but also the actual workload.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[bbarr]

I've been taking classes at Stevens Institute of Technology (webcampus.stevens.edu for the online grad level courses). I've taken both on and off line courses (math and comp sci).

The online school was rated the best by Forbes.

prior to this I spent 1 1/2 years part time working on a diploma in Business Programming & Web Development at the Chubb Institute. Good program. Of course, as someone said before, you get out of it what you put in to it. Some of my classmates worked hard and are quite intelligent and some were, well, if they sent me a resume, I'd toss it into the garbage (poor attitude, etc.).

 

[aic712]

First of all, whoever stated that University of Phoenix is not accredited, you are sorely mistaken, look at this link:

http://chea.org/institutions/action.cfm?CheaID=1404.0

UOP is and has been accredited by the NCA for nearly 30 years. Regional accreditation is the oldest and most widely recognized accreditation in the US, so please research before making unwarranted comments. National accreditation is fairly new, and not as well accepted, you may also research this issue by checking out the DETC website (distance education and training council) at

http://www.detc.org

Second, they are not a "diploma mill" as they do not sell degrees. The minimum amount of time it takes you to earn a degree from UOP is 18 months, and that's just for the MIS degree.

Here is the curriculum:

Course #
Course Title
Credits
Prerequisite(s)

COM/525
Managerial Communication & Ethics
3
---

CSS/561
Programming Concepts
3
COM/525

CMGT/555
Systems Analysis & Development
3
CSS/561

CMGT/575
CIS Project Management
3
CSS/561

DBM/500
Database Concepts
3
CMGT/555

DBM/502
Database Management
3
DBM/500

NTC/500
Networking Concepts
3
CMGT/555

NTC/502
Networking Management
3
NTC/500

CMGT/579
CIS Risk Management
3
NTC/502, DBM/502

CMGT/578
CIS Strategic Management
3
All courses in the program. Must be the last course.

Total Credits
30

Master of Information Systems
Version 001

Program Description

The Master of Science in Information Systems (MIS) program is focused on the acquisition of information technology theory and the application of theory and practice to real world business opportunities and challenges. The courses provide current theory and knowledge of essential information technology components, as well as interpersonal and intra-organizational communication. While courses examine a broad range of information technology resources, the courses emphasize the management of such resources in order to meet an organization's challenges and goals.

The program has six main threads:

1. Business Management

2. Business Systems Analysis and Development

3. Programming Management

4. Databases

5. Networks and Telecommunications

6. The Web

Admission to the MIS program requires a Business Degree.

Program Mission
The mission of the MIS is to graduate the professional adult learner with the following competencies:

· An ability to successfully perform and obtain desired outcomes in a variety of information system and technology environments in a business.

· An ability to provide leadership and management to develop, support, and execute the strategic use of information systems and technology to meet the mission, goals, and objectives of a business.

· An ability to apply sound business principles to maximize the effectiveness of information systems and technology physical, financial, and human resources in support of the day-to-day operations of a business.


And the non G-MAT, GRE requirement is normal for non-traditional schools (st leo, national university, norwich, Union institute, capella, strayer, devry, argosy, nova southeastern) and the list goes on...you can also locate schools that do not require a graduate entrance exam by searching google, and the LSAT does not apply to UOP as they do not offer professional degrees (law/medical).

UOP is mainly a business school, and what their IT programs teach you is how to work in teams and how to manage others, not just how to sit in front of a desk and type in code all day. If you ever plan on being a CIO or CTO, you need to be able to give effective presentations, and to understand the fundamentals of organiztional managemnt, finance, accounting, marketing, and project management as well as the technical side of things.

As I said, do your research before spouting false information.

UOP is not and never will be a harvard, but they are properly accredited and do offer an educational process. most of the complaints about the school come from students who either couldn't cut the compressed schedule, or did not want to work in groups. Which is definately the case w/ uopsucks.com. They are a few students that are mad about things that have been fixed since they posted them, as many of the policies they site and professors they reference, do not work for UOP. When an organization is large and successful, it tends to intimidate people, and when you have over 200,000 students, there are bound to be complaints.

 

[aic712]

And once again concerning devry,

Maybe every location isn't "programatically" (ABET) accredited, but the school as a whole is "regionally" accredited. What you people don't understand that is a school cannot operate in a state legally unless it is accredited, especially in illinois. Please research each state's education website, and they will all list schools authorized to operate in that state, as well as their accreditation status. once again, follow the link:

http://chea.org/institutions/action.cfm?CheaID=873.0

 

[Onyxpurr]

Well this is what I do know..

I graduated from Devry in 2003 with a Bachelor's degree in CIS that I worked my butt off for. My professors were great and well qualified to teach on the subject.

Since I've graduated, I decided to go looking for a job. Granted a person is not solely defined by their education alone, however it only took me 2 weeks to not only find another job, but one that gave me a 25% increase. Every one in my profession that I've spoken to so far, has been impressed by my degree from Devry and knows that I worked hard for the degree.

Based on this, I would most definately suggest Devry for anyone seeking a degree worth it's investment. Online or off.

 

[Elsebet]

I'm a Devry Columbus grad (2001) and haven't had any real issues with employment. In fact I was hired full-time in 1998 with only 1 year of school completed, and worked through the remainder of my education there.

A lot of people look down on DeVry for many reasons, some of which include the TV advertisements and "diploma mill" perception. As a personal anecdote, I took a half-day vacation to attend an interview in 2001. One of the first things the interviewing manager said to me upon my arrival was "I don't hire people from your school." I maintained my composure but was pretty angry considering he basically just told me I wasted a half-day of precious vacation. I felt better when I interviewed with the rest of his team and it was full of all white guys (I'm a female). And no I didn't hear from them again even though I felt I did a great job in the interview regardless of the initial impression.

If a manager is going to look down on me solely because of the school I attended in light of my current qualifications, then I wouldn't want to work for him/her anyway.

 

[Onyxpurr]

Elsebet,

Sorry to hear, but I agree with you, wouldn't want to work for them anyway.

I think Devry has changed a lot since becoming a 'university'. When I first started attending the classes were still good, but the administration had something to be desired. I stopped going to school for about two years (due to other reasons) and when I came back, they were much better organized.

As a matter of fact, I liked them so much, I am now getting my MISM from Keller (their graduate school) and they are very impressive too.

 

[kHz]

I would like to add my opinion on UoP regarding this phrase

they do not sell degrees

They are a for-profit organization. This is a company that looks at their bottom line. They look at the profit-and-loss columns, and pay attention to their balance sheet.

My feeling is they are not as concerned with "failing" a student that would happen at a traditional college. If they fail a student, then the company loses revenue. My assumption is they would be a lot more lax and their standards are not as high as required by the traditional colleges and universities.

I also have a co-worker that was enrolled in UoP for a graduate degree in accounting. She never took the GMAT to get into their "graduate school." Of course, she lasted in their program for one semester and voluntarily quit to announce that she was now in "Law School!". She apparently has found a for-profit online law school that doesn't have reciprocity with her state of residence and isn't accredited by the ABA, so all you can do if you graduate is sit for the CA Bar and practice there. Also, she didn't have to take the LSAT for acceptance. In both of those programs she has been in, UoP accounting and "law school," she tried to get into a local university, but couldn't meet the admissions criteria. I find it comical, and find that she misrepresents herself, because she always tells everyone "I'm in law school." However, she neglects to tell them the real scenario, that it is online. There are a couple of local law schools at real universities, and I am sure everyone thinks she is enrolled in one of them. I guess if deception works for her, then its her problem.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I guess if deception works for her, then its her problem.

Diploma mill is a serious problem that can be very deceiving and costly in more ways than one.
Swan Therapist
Top Officials Hold Fake Degrees
These stories are just two examples of the dangers of diploma mills and education fraud.

One of the easiest things you can do to help properly judge the quality of your chosen institution is to look at their webside address. Is is a '.edu' site or a '.com' site?

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[kHz]

The cost of online "schools" is higher than a traditional college, so what reason do people have for paying those exorbitant amounts?

 

[RiverGuy]

It is? I would like to see some figures depicting typical costs.

 

[kHz]

University of Nebraska
2004-05 Tuition(per credit hour)
Graduate Undergraduate
NE Resident $190.00 $143.75

University of Iowa
Undergraduate.................$196 per semester hour
RN to BSN Program ............$256 per semester hour
Graduate......................$305 per semester hour
MBA for Professionals & Managers ...$425 per semester hour
MSN...........................$455 per semester hour

UoP
Online Group Study
Undergraduate $460/credit hour
Graduate $570/credit hour
Doctoral $645/credit hour

MAED and Nursing
Undergraduate $400/credit hour
Graduate $450/credit hour
Doctoral $645/credit hour