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Working in the UK 3
- Thread starter mag007
- Start date
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
It might be worth asking if you can join the Tek-Tips in the U.K. forum and asking there forum1091
- Thread starter
- #3
mag007,
As a Briton who would love to move to the USA, I have to question your sanity!
Are you sure that you really want to do this. Americans in Europe face numerous problems, even though they speak fluent English.
First of all, over here petrol costs over $8 per gallon. Do you want to budget £200-300 per month for petrol? Taxation is punitive. A three bedroom semi-detached, with a postage stamp garden, now averages out at about £180,000.
You would take a 30-40% cut in your standard of living immediately upon arrival, even if you had a well paid job lined up. Some American friends who are subsidised by their companies, if the choose to accept payment in pounds and no subsidy, have to get a £20,000 salary increase, to be able to maintain an American standard of living.
You will also have a culture shock, as sadly, most Americans are extremely parochial, never having ventured out of their own country. Sure, in the major cities a cosmopolitan atmosphere is present, but out in the boonies, Americans are infamous for their insularity.
Since you want to move, you are obviously an adventurous type, so that won't be a problem for you, but bear in mind that so very much is different, that you'll get some unexpected shocks. Also, the weather is atrocious, soggy, damp and generally grey and minging for several months of the year.
Ho hum, I really do want to move to the USA. Can we swap?
Regards
Tharg
Grinding away at things Oracular
As a Briton who would love to move to the USA, I have to question your sanity!
Are you sure that you really want to do this. Americans in Europe face numerous problems, even though they speak fluent English.
First of all, over here petrol costs over $8 per gallon. Do you want to budget £200-300 per month for petrol? Taxation is punitive. A three bedroom semi-detached, with a postage stamp garden, now averages out at about £180,000.
You would take a 30-40% cut in your standard of living immediately upon arrival, even if you had a well paid job lined up. Some American friends who are subsidised by their companies, if the choose to accept payment in pounds and no subsidy, have to get a £20,000 salary increase, to be able to maintain an American standard of living.
You will also have a culture shock, as sadly, most Americans are extremely parochial, never having ventured out of their own country. Sure, in the major cities a cosmopolitan atmosphere is present, but out in the boonies, Americans are infamous for their insularity.
Since you want to move, you are obviously an adventurous type, so that won't be a problem for you, but bear in mind that so very much is different, that you'll get some unexpected shocks. Also, the weather is atrocious, soggy, damp and generally grey and minging for several months of the year.
Ho hum, I really do want to move to the USA. Can we swap?
Regards
Tharg
Grinding away at things Oracular
CorruptedLogic
IS-IT--Management
- Aug 1, 2001
- 193
So as a Brit living in the USA, i pretty much have to echo what Tharg just said. My standard of living has increased 10 fold since I moved here. I'd never move back, ever!
One thing you'd have to think about mag007, is the whole Visa situation. I'm pretty sure that getting a work visa for the UK wouldn't be as difficult as it was for me to get one for the US (and I'm MARRIED to an American!). It was a real pain in the rear!
Good luck if you do cross the pond though, just remember, there is so much more to the UK than London!
good luck with whatever you decide to do!
peace.
CCNA, CCDP, Net+, A+
Work Smarter, Not Harder....
This was supposed to be the future.....Where is my JetPack?!
One thing you'd have to think about mag007, is the whole Visa situation. I'm pretty sure that getting a work visa for the UK wouldn't be as difficult as it was for me to get one for the US (and I'm MARRIED to an American!). It was a real pain in the rear!
Good luck if you do cross the pond though, just remember, there is so much more to the UK than London!
good luck with whatever you decide to do!
peace.
CCNA, CCDP, Net+, A+
Work Smarter, Not Harder....
This was supposed to be the future.....Where is my JetPack?!
- Thread starter
- #6
KenCunningham
Technical User
Hi Mag007. You may like to ask Dave Hunt (aka SantaMufasa) for his views as I know he has extensive experience of working in various parts of the UK. Dave can usually be contacted in any of the Oracle fora, if it's of any use to you. I'm sure there are many others who'd be willing to chip in too.
Alan Bennett said:
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
I agree with CorruptedLogic on the London front there is a good IT center in Manchester, housing around there is less than London (not massively) also you're a stones throw away from the Peak and Lake districts. If you then feel you MUST visit London there is a direct train route that takes two hours. It's also a great jumping off place to visit the rest of Europe.
Having said all that i'd move to San Francisco if i was you
Having said all that i'd move to San Francisco if i was you
-
1
- #9
There are lots of good things about the UK though.... honest!
History being a huge thing (at least for me...). I have always lived here, and still enjoy visiting all of the monuments: Tower of London, Stonehenge, etc etc.......
Fee
The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]
History being a huge thing (at least for me...). I have always lived here, and still enjoy visiting all of the monuments: Tower of London, Stonehenge, etc etc.......
Fee
The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
Oh yes you can't beat a good sun rise at Stonehenge
lionelhill
Technical User
And if you get a really, really good salary, you might even be able to afford to go inside the Tower of London rather than just walk round the outside...
The UK is still able to offer Christmas puddings, tea and biscuits, and insurance. And if you venture further out you can try deep-fried pizzas. While the last few fish still circle the island, there's a chance to appreciate a nearly-extinct species with chips, too. But we'll soon have finished them off, so come quickly.
The UK is still able to offer Christmas puddings, tea and biscuits, and insurance. And if you venture further out you can try deep-fried pizzas. While the last few fish still circle the island, there's a chance to appreciate a nearly-extinct species with chips, too. But we'll soon have finished them off, so come quickly.
-
1
- #12
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Mag007,
Thanks, Ken, for giving me the heads-up about MAG007's inquiry. I'm happy to lend my thoughts about working in the UK.
First of all, my working in the UK provided some of the most delightful experiences of my life. I love the British people both as a group and as individuals.
Interestingly enough, my being in England at the right time changed my my life for the better...but not in a British-based way...Although I was engaged to woman in the U.S., I met a young lady in London who was there for only a 24-hour layover on her return home to the U.S. from a 3-week tour of Europe. She and I were born 40 miles from each other in Southern Idaho, but we had to go to London to meet each other. She, too, was engaged to someone else, but by the end of the day that we spent together, without our saying anything even remotely romantic, we knew that we would end up marrying.
We wrote for the rest of my tenure in the UK (16 months)...I returned home on a September 15, we got engaged on October 9, went on our first date on October 12, were married on November 21, and have lived happily ever after for these 33 years.
Now, away from the fairy-tale stuff (of which great memories are made)...Everything that John (Tharg...) and Fee (Willif), and PorkChop have said are very accurate from my experience.
Absolutely, dollar for dollar, pound for pound, you will experience a drastic change in standard of living. You will need to get used to oppressive taxation: 17% Value Added Tax on virtually everything you purchase...The income tax on the higer earners in the culture is phenominal: I remember an interview with Sir Paul McCartney several years ago. The interviewer asked Sir Paul what he thought about Ringo's and John's "defections" to the U.S. His response:
Although National Health coverage is universal, it is infamous for being univerally substandard compared to what you are used to in the U.S. You absolutely can receive the health coverage that you are used to in the U.S., but you pay for it either out-of-pocket or by supplemental coverage that you must obtain, and pay for, privately.
My rule of thumb while living and working there recently was: Expect to pay in Pound Sterling amounts in the UK what you pay (numerically) in Dollars in the U.S. For example, if you are used to paying $2 for a Big Mac in the U.S., you will pay at least £2 for a Big Mac in the UK.
For a two-bedroom, one-bath flat with a small kitchen and sitting room (no parking available) in an average complex in Chelsea (West London), I was shocked to pay £1,400 a month. (I pay $1,250/month for a 7-bedroom, 2-kitchen, 3-bath home with a 3-car garage and a lovely yard...7 minutes from Snowbird Ski Area.)
Another consideration is whether or not you are "married with children". If so, your decision affects others besides yourself (obviously). If you have children, the school system will be a mental/emotional adjustment for them...Not better, not worse, just different. If you are not "attached" to other family members, then you don't necessarily have these considerations (except for the extended family that you will be leaving behind). So, this is, perhaps, the best time in your life to venture into such an exciting prospect. If you don't "Just Do It", you will always suffer the angst of wondering what could have/might have been.
I would not, however, jump into the "deep end of the pool" without first having a solid (signed) job offer from whomever will be employing you in the UK, and exploring the aspects of living there that will affect you financially in such a significant way: Taxes, Housing, Food, Transportation, et cetera.
I recognise that we (with experience of living in the UK) sound rather discouraging on your prospect, But...I would not trade the memories and experiences in the U.K. for anything. I love the U.K. and its people, customs, culture, et cetera. I just don't think that I could adjust to living there permanently, considering the cost-benefit ratios.
Let us know your objectives with such a venture and your reactions to our comments.
![[santa]](/data/assets/smilies/santa.gif "[santa] [santa]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
Thanks, Ken, for giving me the heads-up about MAG007's inquiry. I'm happy to lend my thoughts about working in the UK.
First of all, my working in the UK provided some of the most delightful experiences of my life. I love the British people both as a group and as individuals.
Interestingly enough, my being in England at the right time changed my my life for the better...but not in a British-based way...Although I was engaged to woman in the U.S., I met a young lady in London who was there for only a 24-hour layover on her return home to the U.S. from a 3-week tour of Europe. She and I were born 40 miles from each other in Southern Idaho, but we had to go to London to meet each other. She, too, was engaged to someone else, but by the end of the day that we spent together, without our saying anything even remotely romantic, we knew that we would end up marrying.
We wrote for the rest of my tenure in the UK (16 months)...I returned home on a September 15, we got engaged on October 9, went on our first date on October 12, were married on November 21, and have lived happily ever after for these 33 years.
Now, away from the fairy-tale stuff (of which great memories are made)...Everything that John (Tharg...) and Fee (Willif), and PorkChop have said are very accurate from my experience.
Absolutely, dollar for dollar, pound for pound, you will experience a drastic change in standard of living. You will need to get used to oppressive taxation: 17% Value Added Tax on virtually everything you purchase...The income tax on the higer earners in the culture is phenominal: I remember an interview with Sir Paul McCartney several years ago. The interviewer asked Sir Paul what he thought about Ringo's and John's "defections" to the U.S. His response:
Can you believe that??? If Sir Paul earns £1,000,000, the government lets him take home £20,000. That is a significant adjustment.Sir Paul said:
Although National Health coverage is universal, it is infamous for being univerally substandard compared to what you are used to in the U.S. You absolutely can receive the health coverage that you are used to in the U.S., but you pay for it either out-of-pocket or by supplemental coverage that you must obtain, and pay for, privately.
My rule of thumb while living and working there recently was: Expect to pay in Pound Sterling amounts in the UK what you pay (numerically) in Dollars in the U.S. For example, if you are used to paying $2 for a Big Mac in the U.S., you will pay at least £2 for a Big Mac in the UK.
For a two-bedroom, one-bath flat with a small kitchen and sitting room (no parking available) in an average complex in Chelsea (West London), I was shocked to pay £1,400 a month. (I pay $1,250/month for a 7-bedroom, 2-kitchen, 3-bath home with a 3-car garage and a lovely yard...7 minutes from Snowbird Ski Area.)
Another consideration is whether or not you are "married with children". If so, your decision affects others besides yourself (obviously). If you have children, the school system will be a mental/emotional adjustment for them...Not better, not worse, just different. If you are not "attached" to other family members, then you don't necessarily have these considerations (except for the extended family that you will be leaving behind). So, this is, perhaps, the best time in your life to venture into such an exciting prospect. If you don't "Just Do It", you will always suffer the angst of wondering what could have/might have been.
I would not, however, jump into the "deep end of the pool" without first having a solid (signed) job offer from whomever will be employing you in the UK, and exploring the aspects of living there that will affect you financially in such a significant way: Taxes, Housing, Food, Transportation, et cetera.
I recognise that we (with experience of living in the UK) sound rather discouraging on your prospect, But...I would not trade the memories and experiences in the U.K. for anything. I love the U.K. and its people, customs, culture, et cetera. I just don't think that I could adjust to living there permanently, considering the cost-benefit ratios.
Let us know your objectives with such a venture and your reactions to our comments.
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
Another benefit, you could attend the Tek-Tips UK beery meets. I haven't ever been on one but from the banter they sound like a good way to meet people and have a laugh
SantaMufasa
Technical User
P.S., Mag...you think you speak English, but you don't...You speak American...definitely not the same language. I have developed an English-American dictionary of about 1000 words with meanings that are very divergent between English and American...Don't leave home without it (unless you don't mind being very embarrassed.)
For example, I remember getting off the airplane in England in a California-weight suit and bitterly feeling the cold. My working associate took me to Burton's (an all-England chain of men's shops that specialises in off-the-rack and tailor-made clothing.)
I recall the look of shock on both my buddy's face and the saleswoman's face after the saleswoman asked me:![[blush]](/data/assets/smilies/blush.gif "[blush] [blush]")
On another occasion, whilst at dinner with friends, this is how the conversation went:
As Samuel Clemments (Mark Twain) aptly put it:
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
For example, I remember getting off the airplane in England in a California-weight suit and bitterly feeling the cold. My working associate took me to Burton's (an all-England chain of men's shops that specialises in off-the-rack and tailor-made clothing.)
I recall the look of shock on both my buddy's face and the saleswoman's face after the saleswoman asked me:
Although I certainly knew what I wanted her to show me, their interpretation was that I had just asked her to show me was her panties and garters.
On another occasion, whilst at dinner with friends, this is how the conversation went:
The table erupted in gales of laughter...They had a vision of me shussing down the slopes in a coat and very brief women's panties (instead of the lederhosen that I was actually wearing).
As Samuel Clemments (Mark Twain) aptly put it:
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
KenCunningham
Technical User
Thanks Dave, and what a romantic story. I'm sure some Brit producer of rom-coms (Four Weddings etc) would have a field day with that material!!
Alan Bennett said:
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
Oh also you would have to earn a serious amount to reach the 98% tax, it's high but i only loose about 25% of my £25000 which is the U.K average salary apparently.
As a rule of thumb if you are looking for a job in London don't take anything for less than that as it will get you no where.
As a rule of thumb if you are looking for a job in London don't take anything for less than that as it will get you no where.
porkchopexpress
IS-IT--Management
SantaMufasa i had similar experiences when i headed the opposite way across the pond, it usually ends with a laugh though
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Right, PorkChop, you can imagine the hate-crime I envisioned when a British colleague asked me if I'd like to go "smoke a fag".
...Or my euphoria when two lovely young British lasses that were staying in our place requested that I "knock them up at ha'past seven in the morning."
...Or when one of the young ladies was writing a letter home and stopped and inexplicably asked me if I could get her "a rubber."
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
...Or my euphoria when two lovely young British lasses that were staying in our place requested that I "knock them up at ha'past seven in the morning."
...Or when one of the young ladies was writing a letter home and stopped and inexplicably asked me if I could get her "a rubber."
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
![[cannon]](/data/assets/smilies/cannon.gif "[cannon] [cannon]")
![[rofl]](/data/assets/smilies/rofl.gif "[rofl] [rofl]")
Sir Paul wouldn't pay 98% tax on his whole income - he'd payit on the portion that is above that - In fact we don't have a 98% tax band any more (I don't believe)
UK Tax Bands (FYI) 2006-07 (£)
Starting rate 10% 0 - 2,150
Basic rate 22% 2,151 - 33,300
Higher rate 40% over 33,300
so, just to clarify, if I were to earn £40K, I would pay 10% on the first £2,150, I would pay 22% on £31,149 and then 40% on the £6,700 (because only £6,700 is above the upper threshold).
But, the single persons tax allowance is £5,225, so you can earn that much without paying tax at all.
I'm now not sure if that helps or makes it worse!
There is National Insurance which pays towards NHS treatment and various benefits (state pensions etc) as well as Tax though - it's a minefield!
I'm not sure I would agree with the NHS not giving 'as good' treatment as you are used to receiving, but that will get me on my hobby-horse again, so I'll ignore that for now.
If I were in a position to go and work in another country for a while I'd certainly seriously consider it. Money isn't everything! (And it is nice over here - although just for a change today it is raining).
Oh - don't forget that there are two important topics of conversation in London; the weather, and the state of the traffic on the M25 (orbital motorway....)
Fee
The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]
UK Tax Bands (FYI) 2006-07 (£)
Starting rate 10% 0 - 2,150
Basic rate 22% 2,151 - 33,300
Higher rate 40% over 33,300
so, just to clarify, if I were to earn £40K, I would pay 10% on the first £2,150, I would pay 22% on £31,149 and then 40% on the £6,700 (because only £6,700 is above the upper threshold).
But, the single persons tax allowance is £5,225, so you can earn that much without paying tax at all.
I'm now not sure if that helps or makes it worse!
There is National Insurance which pays towards NHS treatment and various benefits (state pensions etc) as well as Tax though - it's a minefield!
I'm not sure I would agree with the NHS not giving 'as good' treatment as you are used to receiving, but that will get me on my hobby-horse again, so I'll ignore that for now.
If I were in a position to go and work in another country for a while I'd certainly seriously consider it. Money isn't everything! (And it is nice over here - although just for a change today it is raining).
Oh - don't forget that there are two important topics of conversation in London; the weather, and the state of the traffic on the M25 (orbital motorway....)
Fee
The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]
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