Win8, all a bad dream 8

[goombawaho]

I have a customer right now that is frothing at the mouth about Outlook 2010. What are you going to do - got to 2013?? I think not.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[technome]

The people behind this should not be allowed to commit user interface design atrocities."

Sounds like your advocating a tribunal for OS crimes based in the city of Redmond , I'm for it. Wonder if the focus groups MS uses could be brought up on any charges... their likely defense would be computer ineptitude and playing with too many fisher price toys as children.

........................................
Chernobyl disaster..a must see pictorial

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, 1949

 

[strongm]

Lying, no. Mistaken or confused, yes.

It was called a ribbon simply because at the time the term toolbar was not yet in common usage for that type of interface.

Indeed the Wiki that you seem to think supports your contention specifically states:

"A toolbar interface, called the ribbon ..."

and

"The usage of the term ribbon dates from the 1980s and was originally used as a synonym for what is now more commonly known as a (non-tabbed) toolbar"

You can see from the screenshots I provided that the ribbon is indeed just a toolbar. Sadly that previous link didn't include Word 5.5, so here is link that remedies that, and clearly shows - even with the graphical limitations of running in text mode - that Word 5.5 has a primitive version what we would now call a toolbar, and includes a screenshot of Word 5.0 so we can see what it was that toolbar was replacing (and trust me, the View | Ribbon option alluded to in the Wiki does not make a ribbon interface appear; it simply displays an extra toolbar line allowing you to interactive set para style and font formatting). You can check for yourself, since Word 5.5 is downloadable for free from Microsoft and runs fine on XP

 

[1DMF]

Mike you seem to be missing the fundamental point being made here, 'It was called a ribbon' and M$ MVP's are quite adamant that all M$ have done is bring it back.

It didn't go unnoticed that they claim 'Ribbon' means (non-tabbed) and the current incarnation is tabbed.

I think this entire thread has highlighted how ridiculous M$ are at keep changing things, renaming things, and using buzzwords (incorrectly)... Anyway UnetBootin ran, USB install ready... If I can get Wine to Run MSO (including the MS Access DB's and All VBA)... I could be one step closer to migrating.



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

'It was called a ribbon' and M$ MVP's are quite adamant that all M$ have done is bring it back.

They've brought the word back, yes - for a different control. That's not the argument you were originally making. And appealing to authority is flawed.

The fact is that you can examine every single Microsoft Office application from the dawn of the Office suite (and indeed the standalone applications that predate it), and none of them have anything resembling a ribbon, or even a tabbed toolbar. Which brings me to:

>It didn't go unnoticed that they claim 'Ribbon' means (non-tabbed)

And now I'm confused: you seem to be acknowledging that the term ribbon from that period does NOT refer to a ribbon control (assuming we go with the vague idea that a ribbon is simply a tabbed command bar), but to a toolbar.

>using buzzwords (incorrectly)

How so?

 

[dilettante]

If you consider Microsoft MVPs to be any kind of "authority" at all I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[1DMF]

So they aren't valued then? - I give up!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[audiopro]

I don't think it is worth falling out over a mere description.
As I see it, the early pioneers of computer software, felt it was most intuitive to have drop down menus containing easy to understand words.
This method served us well but as it wasn't broken they decided to fix it.

It would appear that humans are quietly experiencing an evolution where we no longer recognise words and prefer instead to spend our time working out what tiny little graphics may mean.

The designers have gone some way to making it easier for us by adding words to the graphics, ensuring that there is very little space left on screen to actually work.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[ChrisHirst]

I have a customer right now that is frothing at the mouth about Outlook 2010. What are you going to do - got to 2013?? I think not.

OpenOffice / LibreOffice with Claws Email

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[ChrisHirst]

I've still got another HP DX6100 MT on the shelf, think I might try with USB

If you have a machine already running Mint, fire up 'MintStick' (Accessories -> USB Image Writer) to make a Bootable USB.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[strongm]

>So they aren't valued then?

1) Valued? Yes, in certain narrow areas.
2) Authorities? No. Absolutely not. They are recognised as being helpful highly knowledgeable in certain, narrow, specific areas.
3) Being an highly knowledgeable in certain, narrow, specific areas does not mean that they are (or are required to be)

a) authoritative
b) Know everything about that narrow area
b) Know anything outside of that narrow area​

A current Word MVP, for example, does not actually have to know anything whatsoever about anything previous to Word 2013. Nothing at all. There's no exam or test.

BTW, the whole flaw with the appeal to authority is that, as your favourite source of information says, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise.

 

[strongm]

(oh, and more latterly there is a view that many MVPs are really just Microsoft advocates)

 

[goombawaho]

OpenOffice / LibreOffice with Claws Email

They don't want to switch from an interface that they are used to, though it's becoming less recognizable all the time.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[ChrisHirst]

To be honest Claws and OpenOffice have a damned site more 'familar' look and feel that the abomination of a "User Interface" that the M$ route is heading.
Personally I think it's just done to create sales of Microshaft 'training videos' and material for the "Ribbon".

As you can probably tell, I kicked my "Microsoft Certified Professional" status into touch a fair while ago now, and the M.V.P. badge only seems to mean you are an 'expert' in the M$ way, I was usually the one who got the Exchange servers back up and running when our over-paid MS Exchange MVP (contractor) was still looking through his manuals and notebook for the right button to push.

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[dilettante]

> there is a view that many MVPs are really just Microsoft advocates

The word you're looking for is shills.

There is also quite the element of "good old boys club" about the entire thing too.

 

[1DMF]

BTW, the whole flaw with the appeal to authority is that, as your favourite source of information says, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise.

I know, that's why I say I give up. We have had an MS Certified / MS & Sophos Gold partner, dial into our SBS server to upgrade Sophos, trashed our SQL and all databases, couldn't fix Sophos, buggered off and tried to tell my Boss, I had done it. - Luckily that day I was actually in London at the Insight Technology Show, so it couldn't have been me!

Now you say MVP doesn't mean anything... I guess I just wasted 4 years getting a Diploma?

I wear my 'Dip Comp' with pride in my email signature, which I guess means nothing to everyone else?

Though I still have to assume George earned his and wears it with pride (else why display it?)... he has always been awesome in the SQL forum!

If you have a machine already running Mint, fire up 'MintStick' (Accessories -> USB Image Writer) to make a Bootable USB.

Well I tried several times with Ubootin, Mint refuses to work, some 'Timeout Killing' error, which happens to a lot of people, but I struggled to find a coherent reason / resolve, so I gave up and am now loading Debian 7.4 KDE, I might fire up another self built P4 sitting on the shelf and try with the working VM install I have of Mint, thanks for the heads up Chris.

"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

Being awarded MVP status does not involve a qualification of any sort - and thus differs significantly from your hard-earned Diploma (and, indeed, from being MS Certified, which does at least involve an exam or two ...).

But of course MVPs wear their status with pride. They are generally very knowledgeable in their area of expertise and share that knowledge. As Microsoft put it, MVPS are "passionate about Microsoft technology and recognized for their exceptional technical expertise, their willingness to help others make the most of their technology". However, that is not quite the same thing as saying they know everything about the area in which they are awarded MVP status, even less so about related areas, and certainly not anything outside it.

 

[dilettante]

Yes, being named Microsoft MVP is a lot like a celebrity who has been granted an honorary degree.

 

[linney]

As a MVP of several years standing I can quite honestly say I have nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft. My "MVPship" was awarded by Microsoft after being nominated by fellow forum users for work done in this forum and other forums. Anybody can nominate anybody (to Microsoft) for an MVP award. The main qualification required is a proven record of helping other Windows users. MVP's are not expected to know the answer to every problem or the solution to every question. They do have some limited contact with Microsoft but experience has taught me that Microsoft, also, don't have the answers to every problem either.

Nominate an MVP

http://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/nominate-an-mvp.aspx

 

[ChrisHirst]

Bit like "Man of the match" or "Player of the month" awards then.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum