Win8, all a bad dream 8

[strongm]

> initially in Win 8 , there was no way of brining up , control panel, computer, printers and devices,

Of course there was. For example, all available on the Computer ribbon in the Windows 8 Explorer (or right-clicking the corner hotspot - not immediately apparent, but there nevertheless), except for Printers (which are available from the Control Panel, so an extra click for something that gets done pretty infrequently by most users. There are multiple other quick ways of accessing the Devices and Printers page)

>especially on 'Computer' to choose either 'Properties' or that powerful GUI shortcut 'Manage'

Yep. All available when using Explorer. Or right clicking on that hot spot.

 

[1DMF]

Yep. All available when using Explorer

You mean Windows Explorer or are you talking about those annoying fly out menus when you move anywhere near any edge, the first thing to get disabled when the 3rd party start menu is installed.



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

Windows Explorer

 

[1DMF]

Oh right, that program, that after 15 years of trying to explain to people that it is not called 'My Computer' Or 'Computer' but it is an application called Windows Explorer and it simply displays across the title bar the current focused / active location.

I've given up asking people to open Windows Explorer, the usual response I get after asking that is "OK I'm on Google, what do you want me to search!".



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>after 15 years of trying to explain to people

I know what you mean! Still, not Windows 8's fault - and Windows 8.1 does at least vaguely try and correct this by calling it "File Explorer" instead of "Windows |Explorer"

 

[1DMF]

Still, not Windows 8's fault

Nope, but considering most users still think it's called 'computer / my computer', to then remove it from simple access via the 20+ years of 'start menu', is Windows 8's fault!

They certainly can't have it both ways, they want to make all their OS's look and feel the same for continuity and user friendliness, then every time they bring out a new version of Windows or Office they move everything and/or rename things... so much for continuity and thinking that a user would like to have the same experience across all M$ products.

You don't get the same experience from one update to another these days, that is not providing the end user with an intuitive, familiar, consistence UX.

Do I like the fact 90% of end users think Windows Explorer is called 'Computer', no, however, we have all got used to this and have found ways of dealing with this way of supporting users and their perceptions of what they think they are using on their computer...

How does M$ think removing the old way plus renaming it is going to help, crikey, I didn't even know it's no longer called Windows Explorer, I don't know what was wrong with the original name 'File Manager', it seems M$ never learn? If anything it should be called 'Computer Explorer' due to what you can actually explore via it, as it has come a long way from simply being a file system GUI tool.

We all know the fiasco caused by them simply dropping 'My' from in front of everything, and then confused the issue even more, by there still being these 'My' named folders lying underneath.

Of course being 1st / 2nd /3rd line support, means I have to deal with these problems on a daily basis, I know as a professional computer savvy user, I could pick up the nuances of Windows 8 without difficulty, the bottom line is Windows 8 looks awful, doesn't work any better than Windows 7, has an awful GUI / UX and I'd rather use Linux Mint KDE.

We all hated the M$ Ribbon in Office 2007 when it came out but quickly got used to it, now it's as familiar as the old interface, do I think it is better or an improvement, nope, it's made no difference what so ever, in fact stupid things like getting to 'page setup' is a pain, there are long winded file menu 'options' routes to get to stuff that used to be under the standard menu...

However, the custom ribbon functionality I have implemented in MS Access is a very good feature, though I wouldn't have cared if it was a customisable standard menu and at least it would take up less screen real estate compared to the stupid sized ribbon, that most of the time you have to have closed so you can fit the actual application on the screen properly!

Now you can't even move your cursor anywhere near the edge of your screen without some stupid 'hot' menu getting in the way, come on, does anyone still use the Office 97 style 'Office Bar' desktop widget, no because it was bloody annoying, got in the way and took up desktop real estate... of course YMMV!




"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>Do I like the fact 90% of end users think Windows Explorer is called 'Computer'

Whilst I sympathise with you earlier comments about your experiences over 15 years, I think this is overstating it somewhat.

And even so, it takes but moments to stick My Computer (now renamed This PC) on the desktop, after which it works just like My Computer from 'the olden days'. Or you can quickly add the Desktop toolbar. Or ...

Mind you, Windows Explorer and My Computer, prior to Vista, were not quite the same thing as each other.

> I don't know what was wrong with the original name 'File Manager'

It hasn't simply managed files and folders for quite a long time ...

>'Computer Explorer'

It's been a very long while since it only allowed you to explore the computer ...

>I didn't even know it's no longer called Windows Explorer

Well, that's because you haven't got Windows 8.1

>We all know the fiasco caused by them simply dropping 'My' from in front of everything

Excellent. So you don't like Windows 7 either then ... ;-)

 

[audiopro]

I don't have a problem navigating around WIN8 , I find it good to work with and dare I say it, an improvement on some of the older OS's.
I still can't get friendly with the Metro Screen however, to me, it is simply in the way.

I have the same feelings when I look at Facebook.
Yes I know it is popular.
Yes I know I am old.
It seems OK for things which have happened in the last few days but try finding something which was posted a few months ago.

This modern Gobbledespeak has even crept into our local forum where we no longer post items, we now SHOUT! - What is that about then?
Am I really getting too old for this technology stuff?

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[1DMF]

Come on Mike, you know I'm talking from a basic end user perspective having supported over 500 users for more than 10 years!

I didn't get confused by the dropping of 'My'(though their existence underneath was a bit confusing at first), however the number of support calls I received over it was crazy. "Help where has My Documents gone!" - "It's called Documents now" - "So they are no longer My documents" - "Well yes , same thing, different name" - "Phew, I was wondering where I put all my files..."

It's amazing sometimes how the smallest things can confuse people that are already a little computer phobic, it's name has changed so it can't be the same thing! It's also amazing how some people get the smallest bit of 'support', and think you are the best thing since sliced bread, so perhaps I should be thanking M$ ;-)

> I don't know what was wrong with the original name 'File Manager'

It hasn't simply managed files and folders for quite a long time ...

I know, I stated that, but that was the point of the irony that it's now called File Explorer, it's certainly more of a 'Computer Explorer' than a 'File Explorer' wouldn't you say?

Well, that's because you haven't got Windows 8.1

Interestingly I have had major issues today with Windows 8.1, it pushes out a device driver update which breaks the WiFi on devices using a Ralink WiFi adaptor. I finally fixed the problem by removing the M$ device driver and installing the manufacturers latest driver, which suspiciously enough was only released 3 days ago!


Keith ->

Am I really getting too old for this technology stuff?

I know the feeling, been wondering that myself!



"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[goombawaho]

I bought StartIsBack to replace the start button and now I can LIVE with windows 8 but not like it.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[strongm]

>I know, I stated that, but that was the point of the irony

I know you did. My point was that your suggested alternative, 'Computer Explorer', was no better.

>We all hated the M$ Ribbon in Office 2007 when it came out but quickly got used to it, now it's as familiar as the old interface

No, we didn't (all hate it). But that aside, now I'm lost. You accept that change is OK, because people get used to it, and yet are not prepared to accept change in Windows 8 (and here I'm focussing on the changes to the desktop component, not Metro). Strikes me that we have a level of confirmation bias going on here.

 

[1DMF]

You accept that change is OK, because people get used to it, and yet are not prepared to accept change in Windows 8

Change in and of itself, in an evolution type way is good, change for change sake for no apparent reason, not so.

So 'This PC' is a valid, good , sane thing to do ? And is every other computer on the network going to be called 'That PC'?

'Computer' made sense, and is what it is, but I guess that didn't work with their slogan "I'm a PC", but hey, having Dyspraxia I look at things differently, and sometimes contradictory, as my brain finds it hard to discriminate!

Is that what you meant by "confirmation bias"?




"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[strongm]

>Change in and of itself, in an evolution type way is good, change for change sake for no apparent reason, not so.

I'm still confused. The ribbon was not evolution, it was a dramatic change (and many, many people could find no real justification for that change, albeit Microsoft repeatedly posted their reasons and justifications), and yet you have stated you accepted that change.

The Windows 8(.1) desktop (again, I'm not including Metro in this) is simply a fairly minor evolution of the Windows 7 desktop (some graphical flourishes have been removed, square instead of rounded corners), with some parts of the GUI moved to new places (that Microsoft seem to think make more sense), and with some default settings changed. And yet, to you, that is unacceptable.

What is seems like is that you, for whatever reason, dislike Windows 8 (which is of course a view that you are perfectly entitled to) - and thus every tiny little thing that is different about it from Windows 7 is then seen as being a negative. This is confirmation bias.

>So 'This PC' is a valid, good , sane thing to do ? And is every other computer on the network going to be called 'That PC'?
No more so than every other computer on the network being called "Their Computer" in the days when "My Computer" was in vogue or "Another Computer" when "Computer" was in use ;-) Speaking of which

>'Computer' made sense, and is what it is
Didn't you post that changing from 'My Computer' to 'Computer' was a fiasco?


(and yes, the market seems to have rejected Windows 8, but I'd suggest that that is more to do with Metro, and the focus on touch than the relatively minor changes to the desktop element)

 

[1DMF]

The ribbon was not evolution, it was a dramatic change

Well not true really, I believe MS stated they had brought the ribbon back from the grave as it was used originally in MS Office and was replaced by the menu type interface we came to know and love, so I guess it was a devolution

Mike you keep saying 'to you', 'you this' and 'you that' , I have already stated I am speaking from a vast wealth of support call knowledge helping basic end users.

Yes I HATE Windows 8, and I am not the only one, though I don't hate it as much as my users, why? for the simple reason, I personally don't have it, don't wont it and will never use it, I'd rather fire up one of the old XP machines than use Windows 8, well as you know at home I'm now Minted up .

It is a fact that every single person I have met / spoken too who has Windows 8 hates it, not a large enough cross section to make a generic all encompassing statement of loathing of Windows 8 by the general populous, but still 100% of @ 30-40 current Win 8 users, and that excludes family and friends who have it and hate it also.

Rightly or wrongly many feel that MS sometimes seem to change things for the sake of it, slap a different coat of paint on stuff, just so they can try to re-sell us a so called newer product of something we already have that works perfectly well.

I'm curious you haven't stated whether you think calling the PC 'This PC' is better than 'Computer', it's no big deal to me, you seem to think it's affecting me in a bad way and I'm unwilling to accept the change, not at all, I find it comical and pointless, and cannot fathom why they do things like this, perhaps you could explain this so I have something accurate to tell my users when they ask me the question, because they will!









"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[hairlessupportmonkey]

I meant same OS in a lose term. Of course its not the same OS under the hood.... (although the XBOX One is a variant of Windows 8.)

ACSS - SME
General Geek

 

[strongm]

>I believe MS stated they had brought the ribbon back from the grave as it was used originally in MS Office

Here's a page carrying screenshots Word for Windows 1.0, Word for Windows 1.1B, Word 2.0, and Word 6. As you can see, all are using a toolbar, not a ribbon.

>Mike you keep saying 'to you', 'you this' and 'you that'
Well, yes, a bit. But only after you started stating what appeared to be personal opinions, such as:

>Do I like the fact 90% of end users think Windows Explorer is called 'Computer', no
>I don't know what was wrong with the original name 'File Manager'
>do I think it is better or an improvement, nope

You can see how I might have assumed this is what you (rather than a bunch of anonymous users) thought.

>Yes I HATE Windows 8,

Yep, think we've got that.

>you haven't stated whether you think calling the PC 'This PC' is better than 'Computer', it's no big deal to me

Er ... you're the one that brought it up as an issue, though. But since you ask ... I can see vaguely valid reasons why they dumped "My" from "My Computer" since what you might be looking at (for example in a corporate environment) might not actually be your own PC - it might be a shared resource, it might be a remote desktop running on a server elsewhere - "This" might be considered more accurate and inclusive. As for whether it be PC or Computer .. meh, either works for me. Perhaps something like "This Device" might be better (W8.2 maybe ;-) ), given that in W8 does not just run on PCs.

 

[ChrisHirst]

For myself, I avoided XP and Vista completely and stuck with Wondows 2000 until Windows 7 arrived. Win2k was stable, did everything it needed to do without having fancy fading/sliding menus and other such time-wasting and CPU wasting 'niceties', I know what I need to click, why the hell do I have to wait until it slides into view like a swan appearing from behind the reeds. If I wanted to have that I'd have gone fishing instead of switching my computer on.

Windows 8 lasted a whole three days before I got totally pi$$ed off with it and wiped the drive (including the recovery partition) to have Windows 7 instead. My opinion was why do I have to buy ANOTHER product just to make the operating system usable??

Anyhow, as I have said in a different board, The cure for all those annoying Windows problems is in the form of Linux Mint, and if you still think that Linux is stuck in the 1980's with the user having to compile the OS and applications yourself or doing everything via arcane command line calls I'd suggest you have a look at the Mint distros (or Gentoo if you want do a lot of customised desktop layouts).

Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Time flies like an arrow, however, fruit flies like a banana.
Webmaster Forum

 

[goombawaho]

Maybe Microsoft could just stop coming out with new versions for those of us that want to keep something forever. Tongue in cheek or realistic request? Actually both. I really don't need anything "more" than what Windows XP offered me in terms of what I do with my computer on a daily basis. All these new versions are just annoyances for my customers and myself. Plus, especially for businesses, it would be nice if they could keep a platform for 5 years or more without the pressure of new office and O.S. versions banging on their doors.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[1DMF]

Here's a page carrying screenshots Word for Windows 1.0, Word for Windows 1.1B, Word 2.0, and Word 6. As you can see, all are using a toolbar, not a ribbon.

So you mean Microsoft MVP who told me this was lying and Wiki also has it wrong?

Use of a ribbon interface dates from the early 1990s in productivity software such as Microsoft Word and Wordstar[3] as an alternative for toolbar: It was defined as a portion of a graphical user interface consisting of a horizontal row of controls (e.g. including heterogeneously-sized buttons and drop-down lists bearing icons), typically user-configurable.[4][5][6]

A toolbar interface, called the ribbon, has been a feature of Microsoft Word from the early DOS-based Word 5.5 (ca. 1990)[7] and the first Windows-based versions (activated by the "View | Ribbon" menu option[8]), for which early advertising referred to the use of "the Ribbon to replace an endless string of commands to let you format characters by eye instead of memory".[5]

taken from :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)

Chris -> I'm with you on that, in fact I'm currently re-installing an old XP P4 machine for a work colleague to take home, no point in it sitting on the shelf gathering dust, and it saves me a trip to the dump or paying for ROHS.

I was going to put Mint on it for them, as a test to see how a user gets on with Linux Mint compared to Windows, and if it would be a viable company migration... only problem.. the DVD drive in this PC is so old it won't read self burnt DVD's so couldn't get the ISO image to load - dang! - Unfortunately they are getting XP & Office 2003 :-(

I've still got another HP DX6100 MT on the shelf, think I might try with USB ;-)







"In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"
Free Electronic Dance Music

 

[Nelviticus]

I know it's off-topic but the ribbon, oh my, what a car crash. I'm looking at Outlook 2010 right now and the 'Home' tab is selected, which is one of eight tabs available to me (excluding 'File') and which has ... wait a minute ... twenty-one icons on it in two sizes (of which eleven have drop-downs for further options), a sort-of combo box/listview abomination with a further three entries which expands to show eight items (one of which has a fly out menu) and one 'find' box; on top of that, one of the group labels also has a tiny icon which opens a dialog box!

The people behind this should not be allowed to commit user interface design atrocities. Their managers should not allow those atrocities to go outside the team. Quality Control should boot this stuff right back the way it came. The people running the company should be embarassed to be associated with it. But no, it's right up there front and centre on one of their most widely-used products.

Nelviticus