Win2k - Boot and shut-down times 26

[JChrisCarroll]

I run Win2K on both my laptop and my desktop machines.

There are differences in the configuration and in the program setups, but in spite of that I am intrigued by the differences that I get in the boot up and shut-down times on the two machines.
The desktop machine cold-boots marginally quicker than the laptop (2 mins 15 secs compared with 2 mins 45 secs), but the desktop takes much longer to shut-down than does the laptop (1 min 12 secs compared with 16 secs).

Most of the shut down time with the desktop is occupied by the window that says "saving your settings".

Why would the desktop be quicker to boot, but much slower to shut down?

Is there any routine for checking what goes on during shut down (similar to the start up in safe-mode).

Chris

 

[Accessdabbler]

My desktop was having slow shutdown problems too. Try turning off any virus-scanners and software firewalls you have going just before you shut down. See if that speeds up the shutdown.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks. I will try it, but bearing in mind that I have exactly the same defensive systems on both machines, it is not obvious why it should make a difference.

Chris

 

[JChrisCarroll]

With anti-virus etc disabled, shut-down took 1 second longer. I think within the limits of experimental accuracy we would have to call that "no difference".

Chris

 

[WindowWizard]

Ever notice what's going on behind the screen? On a desktop environment, there is a lot of software interfacing with the hardware that has to be undone during shut down. On a laptop, most of that interfacing is done at the firmware and hardware level so there's not as much to do. On the other hand, the boot up on a laptop requires more time to get it all in the right places plus configuring your system with whatever hardware is attached. Since most newer laptops allow for hot swapping devices, the configuration has to be basically rebuilt each time the system powers up. Thus the laptop may take significantly longer to boot than a desktop system. (IBM ThinkPads are really slow to boot!)

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks for responding WindowWizard. I am afraid I have not kept up with what you said. Could you explain further? Why is the laptop interfacing differently than the desk machine. Are they not both using the same operating system and the same basic hardware. In fact the desktop machine has far more additional external hardware attached - 2 scanners - 2 printers - 2 USB hubs with various permanently attached or temporarily attached devices.

The differences in the boot time are relatively insignificant. It is the difference in the shut-down time (and in particular the length of time devoted to "saving your settings&quot that puzzles me.

 

[pbxman]

I just marked WindowWizard's post for a star. Nicely said.

He's right. You can't compare apples to oranges here. A laptop is a specially-designed device so to speak. It's meant to work, and work well with the hardware it was specifically configured with. A desktop is meant to be widely used with MANY different hardware configurations and as such, programs dont talk to it "as effectively" as a laptop.

Granted, 1+min to shutdown means your desktop is not optimized, and you're most likely running unneccesary services. Spooler, exchange, com+ services, telephony, etc. take a long time to stop sometimes due to them relying on OTHER services that also need to shutdown. It's all a matter of tweaking, really. pbxman
Systems Administrator

Please let Tek-Tips members know their posts were helpful.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks pbxman. Then why does the laptop take longer to boot than does the desktop?

You mention it being a matter of tweaking - can I go back to my original question? How does one examine what is happening during shut-down? Presumably this should be the precursor to any attempt at optimisation?

Chris

 

[WindowWizard]

Laptops usually take longer to boot for a couple of reasons. One, they are typically slower (in CPU and bus speed because of voltage considerations). Second, laptops spend significantly longer in re-creating the environment. Notice that when a laptop starts, it stays in the "security" mode a lot longer. This is because it has to build the environment from what it sees. Desktops are usually static environments. Thus the OS "assumes" a configuration (that last one saved during shut-down) and goes from there, thus it doesn't have to search for all possibilites at the PC Card port, docking station, port replicator, hot-swap (disk) connections, etc. which take a considerable amount of time. (And longer if you're watching the screen! ) To minimize this time, many laptop systems employ firmware interfaces for the devices rather than relying on software to be loaded. If the device is found and there's a match at the firmware level, all well and good. If not, then a software driver search is needed. And sometimes this is a problem. For example, an IBM ThinkPad has it's own internal modem and firmware support. When it loads, because of the way the designers created it, the modem firmware disconnects an external mouse from the PS/2 port. Why? I don't know. But, disconnecting and then reconnecting the mouse at the external PS/2 port, restores functionality since software drivers are then used since the OS sensed the "new" device. (Under Win2K, you can hot-swap most external devices, even mice and monitors. Though not I don't encourage this, but that's the principal behind the monitor/keybd/mouse switch boxes.)

 

[WindowWizard]

Now for the shut down differences. Laptops don't need to save as much "environment configuration" data since it will rebuild it anyway the next power up. Desktops, on the other hand, start up with an assumed configuration of what was last saved. Therefore, a desktop needs to save significantly more information than a laptop with the same hardware suite.

 

[Strator]

Hi JChrisCarroll
Maybe I have a solution for you, because I have experience from the same problem (stalling at "saving settings&quot
I did not accept the "saving settings" delay, (I had a shutdown time of approx 1minute+ too) so I did a fresh install of my w2kpro (sp3-slipstreamed) to find out. Earlier I tried to solve it by changing AV program and uninstalling various programs with no results.
I started to apply all of the hotfixes from windowsupdate, one by one.
When I finally installed a hotfix called: q329170, I ran in to the same problem as before, (loooong delay on Shutdowns and Logouts)
Also I had an error in the Log, caused by "Userenv" and the Event ID was: 1000. "Unable to delete your registryfile from memory" it said.
More info on the hotfix is here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;329170

In my case I solved it by a uninstall of the hotfix until I know a better, because it wasn't a critical hotfix for me.

Strator

 

[WindowWizard]

Good diagnostic discovery, Strator. This is interesting to note as this "fix" is basically a network issue with a specific configuration, i.e. Win XP SP1 connected to a Win2K server with SMB enabled. I don't know how many folks in this forum would have this particular configuration.

I feel that many people may be experiencing this problem, but like myself, never really paid any attention to the amount of time it takes to boot or shut-down. We just accept it and move on, unless it really becomes unacceptable.

Again, thanks for the information. I've awarded you a star for this.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks Strator - that really makes a difference. I followed the link you gave and concluded that I had no need for the particular hotfix.

Deleting it reduced the shut down time from about a minute and a quarter to 10 seconds. The desktop machine now beats the laptop hands down.

Thanks again.

Chris

 

[BillCo]

Thank you Strator. I knew that my slow shutdown resulted from installing security fixes. I did a large number of them at one time but could not figure out which one was the culprit. Your post was really helpful.

 

[travmcgee]

Hi All!

Just joined this forum and had the same problem as above (long load and close times.) I followed the directions and lo and behold my system rebooted a LOT quicker. Then I noticed another problem. When I went to the control panel, NOTHING!
Oh Boy!
I then reloaded that hot fix which brought the control panel back but know the sytem is taking even longer to load.
(sometimes I just can't win)
Any suggestions?
Thanks!!

 

[startup]

Thank you so much Strator. My W2k had been really slow shutting down (several minutes) for some time and I was resigning myself to reinstallation, but thanks to your tip about q329170 I uninstalled this unneeded (for me) security patch and immediately my shut down time went to about 10 seconds. My control panel is fine, nothing missing. The uninstall process did ask me some question about how it might affect other programs. It hasn't seemed to affect anything however.

 

[GarthT]

Thanks all - I'm new to here, but google found this post which solves my exact problem. Additional info follows:

I have a new AMD-based machine, installed Win2K on it, ALL updates (oops ) and all seemed to be going well. Then ... started getting long "saving settings" times (~ 30 sec). I knew I didn't have them initially, so I tried creating a new user - everything worked fine - deleted old user and profile. Then ... same thing happened again to new user! I repeated the process, checked my wife's account (minimal user, no slow logoff). Finally got fed up and used google to find the solution. Thanks again!

btw - has anybody told Mr. Gates about this one? I'd hate to see it included in SP4 for Win2K ...

 

[BekendeVlaming]

Seems like new accounts don't have this problem.
So, create yourself a new account (for those who can). Side-effect is that you'll loose all your precious registry settings. Aren't there any account migration tools out there ? But hey, a fresh account once in a while keeps it running fast. No more orphaned keys...
Or you could just uninstall that damn security patch (q329170) as well and stick with your current account. Decisions, decisions...
Bye.

 

[mutt511]

take a look at this.

http://www.phreakgeek.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48

everyday you learn something new, the day you dont is the day you die....so make someone live longer teach them something.......MUTT

http://www.phreakgeek.ca

 

[jkoch]

I too, am having the same problem. I do not utilize roaming profiles and get the error "windows cannot unload your registry file". I uninstalled the hotfix 329170 and I am still experiencing the problem on my Windows 2000 servers...can anyone help?!?!

Thanks!