What are opinions of seeing sensitive data on a hard disk? 4

[apcandmacuser]

Hi:
Suppose you worked on PC's and a computer came in for repair with a bad HD. The customer also asked you to transfer any recoverable data to the new HD. I presume no one has a problem if some illegal activity was discovered and it was reported to the authorities. But what about if the machine belonged to the spouse of a good friend and on it was discovered a nearly year long trail of internet (& live) dating to find a new spouse - and you know your friend doesn't have a clue. What would you do? Would you talk or remain silent?

 

[Stella740pl]

If you're personal morals and belief system allows for cheating on your spouse, then this really wouldn't be an issue.
Well, my personal morals and belief system doesn't allow ME to cheat on MY spouse, but it equally doesn't allow me to intrude in my friend's marriages, with some exceptions, like if their spouses would try to get a date with me or my spouse, or if they ask for my advice (but not to spy on their spouses). That is, their marriage is none of my business, unless it becomes my business.

However, one thing we do agree upon is approaching that friend (not the wife)...
It's a valid approach, too, but be prepared that he/she can tell you it's none of your business; or just listen, maybe say "OK", and then not take your advice. Possibly, if this friend knows that you know and uncomfortable about it, it may improve things. Or may worsen.

I think ultimately this really is a decision for you to decide.
Ultimately, this IS your choice IF you found out about it on your own, and not while doing your IT stuff, or any other job that involves sensitive information. Then you are not free to talk about it.

 

[KornGeek]

In this situation, I don't think how you found out about it will make a difference in the end. When the fecal matter hits the rotating blades, your friend won't care about how you found out. All that will matter is that you knew and didn't say anything.

I disagree with those who say butt out. One of my close friends was cheating on his wife (who I also considered a friend, just not as close), and I knew about it, but didn't interfere. At the same time, I refused to be an alibi for him. If his wife would call looking for him, I would honestly tell her "He's not here." Once everything blew up (which I believe is inevitable), his wife felt betrayed not only by him, but also by those who knew about it but didn't say anything. To this day, she is no longer anything more than an aquaintance. I don't think she'll ever forgive me.

I also wasn't doing my friend any favors. By allowing him to proceed down that path, I allowed him to destroy many good things he had going for him. He lost his marriage, his job, many friends, lots of money, and ended up in rehab.

This isn't a pleasant situation to be in, and nothing you can do will make things right. However, as a friend, you have an obligation to try to stop the situation from getting worse.

That's my 2 cents at least. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Stella740pl]

In this situation, I don't think how you found out about it will make a difference in the end.
So, if, for example, you work for a bank, and signed some confidentiality/non-disclosure papers, and then found out, say, that a spouse of a friend has a joint account with someone else about whom your friend doesn't know, or something else that might tell you that some cheating is going on, would you tell your friend and/or the spouse? Will your friend support your family and pay your legal fees when you are fired and sued for this?

To this day, she is no longer anything more than an aquaintance. I don't think she'll ever forgive me.
Don't be so sure she would have forgiven you if you would be the one who told her. People tend to kill the messenger.

By allowing him to proceed down that path, I allowed him to destroy many good things he had going for him.
Again, chances are, you wouldn't be able to save anything, but he would be able to blame a big part of his problems on you, just for meddling.

But then again, sometimes it's your choice, sometime it's not.

[blue]People, you don't hear me! It's not about friendship and marraige, it's about "Information Technology Ethics in the Workplace" and "seeing sensitive data on a hard disk" in that same workplace. If it's your workplace, behave professionally. If you get the data while working on it, it's a sensitive business information, even if it is about your friend's spouse. If it is a sensitive business information, you are not free to disclose it.[/blue]

 

[KornGeek]

stella740pl,
Keep in mind that the thread creator mentioned that this had been done as a personal favor. This doesn't involve NDAs.

In the bank example you used, once you have that knowledge, it is easy enough to look for other things not covered by the NDA that you would be allowed to discuss. The clues are there once you know to look for them.

In the end, it's not about how you your friend will see you, it's about the person you'll see when you look in the mirror. If in your eyes it is worse to butt in, then by all means stay out of it. However, if in your eyes it is worse to look the other way, then you need to say something.

 

[Onyxpurr]

stella740pl -

"The 'real' responses appeared to focus more on doing what is right for a friend in the long run rather than ignoring the issue or trying to save your own skin." - apcandmacuser

This would indicate more than just a "technical" issue. He/She is looking for ethical responses. Being a professional, everyone should understand that a lot of what we have to do has ALOT to do with ethical dilemmas.

apcandmacuser -

I have to agree with KornGeek, in that you have to decide if you live with the decision you've made. You're the only person you have to answer to.

One last comment -

Just because someone is going to get angry with you over an action you've made towards them, doesn't mean it was made in vain. I would much rather have my friends angry at me and do the right thing (at least to me), than keep my mouth shut.

 

[Stella740pl]

[Aside]
As for keeping my mouth shut, it's never an easy desison. I am usually tempted to say something, to share information, even if I know it would be wrong - and I am not talking just about the topic of our discussion now.
[/Aside]

And finally,

I have to agree with KornGeek, in that you have to decide if you live with the decision you've made.

That's the one I can agree also. I am glad that we agreed on something. Seriously.

Stella

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

KornGeek has it right there is no legal obligation here to .

One thing my friends appreciate about me is my honesty.
I have groups of friends where some of them will make the odd
comment about another friend of mine and they often know that
I'm going to tell them that they are wrong.

They also know I'll tell them when I see them getting into a
bad situation. They know they can talk to me about it and
because communication with them is alway open they handle bad
news from me not in the "kill the messanger" but "Thanks for
telling me and being her for support."

Your friends marrage may not be your buiseness but I see
emotional abuse just as bad as physical abuse and I'll be damned
if I'll stand for anyone that abuses their spouse, children
or what ever even if they are my friend.

I was in the USMC with a guy that litterally met a girl in
georgia that we vaguely knew from town and married her one month
later. The whole time we told him it was a bad idea that her
reputation is very bad. He decided not to listen to us. A
week after he got married we went on a Op and came back a week
after that. He came home to his bank account cleared out, all
the furniture in his house gone, dog gone and his cloths in a
pile on the floor and I won't describe to you what happened to them.
His wife filed for an annulment and he was left with a big debt and
trying to get his stuff back mean while she was back with her
boyfriend. If I didn't say anything in the begining I wouldn't
be able to face him. He got through it and learnt to listen to
other peoples perspective on the issue.

Often friends just don't think you'll understand but if you are
there to listen and help them it makes all the difference in the
world.

Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Stella740pl]

I was thinking about all this "no legal obligation" because it's a "personal favor" thing, and it was a scary thought. Look, you live your way, nothing criminal, just the way you understand it, and your friends shouldn't judge you, because you are who you are. Then you accept a favor from a friend, or your spouse's friend, or a friend's spouse, for that matter. You think that now your friend has a right to expect a favor from you. Right? Wrong. Because it's not what your friend has in mind. He (or she) thinks, that because he is doing you a favor and is already there, he is entitled to snooping around. Well, maybe not for purpose, but just because he "couldn't help but notice" while doing that. Say, your friend was picking out old books from your garage for a charity drive, or helping you organize something, or looking at your car, or whatever. And found there something that you, probably, shouldn't have left out there, but as it happens, you did. There was a pile of old letters, or cancelled checks, or life insurance policy, or will draft, or car/house papers, or whatever you can think of. Now, that friend not only read the whole thing through, but decided that something in this document is not in your or one of your family member's best interests. It's doesn' matter what you think, or that you get angry at him for intruding, now this friend will run your life the way he considers is best for you (or your family member). He knows that he is right, and feels himself a hero, because he is doing the right thing, even if you are mad at him. Maybe you will understand one day what he did for you. (Even if it breaks your marriage, or create other problems in your life.)

You know, Marie from "Everybody loves Raymond" is one of those. She is always doing it for the best interests of her loved ones.

I don't know about you, but to me the thought is scary. I would be careful accepting big favors from friends.


Wayne, I've heard of many cases like your friend's, some of them date over 50-60 years back, some are new, and happened in different countries, so the world doesn't change. The point is, in 100% of those cases no one listened to bad things said about their prospective spouses by their friends. People never learn from someone else's experience. They always hope for the better, and trust their significant others more than any friends. If it doesn't work out, the fact that "you told him so" doesn't matter that much any more. If it does, you might be excluded from the couple's list of friends, because "you don't like his wife". But if you feel better when you do so, and "it makes all the difference in the world", then I can't judge you. Do what you should do.

Look, people can never agree on everything, and often it's just plain impossible to change someone's opinion. I guess what we do here is exchange opinions, not trying to change each other's mind, right? We all are adult people, and it's just too late to drastically change. So let's just accept the way things are: people can have different opinions.

Stella

 

[Onyxpurr]

I agree with you in that last respect Stella. Quite often, too often, you get into exchanging opinions with someone who refuses to accept the fact that it is okay for people to have their own opinions. I love the fact that we all sharing different viewpoints on the same issue. Everyone is not the same...heck, it would be a dull world if we all were.

For me personally, my friends many a time have taken me aside and told me that something that happened made them uncomfortable and that they were there for me. Quite often, they tell me something I disagre with and that we both feel strongly about. But they also realize that no matter how uncomfortable the subject, they can be honest with me because I do recognize it comes from them caring a lot about me. Enough to bring these things up. We all have a mutual agreement that we may not agree, but we can up front and honest about these subjects because it's a way of showing that we care about the other person.

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

stella740pl - wrong my friends do listen to me. I've had quiet a few friends that have taken my advice. I've also had friends when I've given the advice tell me more about a situation and retracted my advice. People can learn. I listen to my friends and as long as you don't lie to yourself you know when you are being blind. With my friends and I its a known if we can't explain it to someone else then we are lieing to ourselves and probably shouldn't trust our own judgement.

I have a friend and it took me about 3 years to get her and her husband to counceling because they had a ...well friggid marriage. Things are better now. He's clearly not as frustrated, I'm not his friend and he has no idea I know what I know but have worked with him. They are now planning on children. If I didn't talk to her about and get her to stop thinking that a marriage without any intimacy is normal they may have well stayed married for the rest of their lives, as they are the type that would stay in a mediocre situation rather then tough out the year or 2 of pain that might come with splitting up, but they are both much happier now and it shows.

Many times there are times that we talk and I get or give advice and the other party might not agree and moves on. I'm not saying I alway have the right answer but my friends can trust me to say what I feel and point out to them if they are lieing to themselves

Another case is I have a friend and he and this woman have a obvious attraction to eachother. EVERYONE sees it and he knows its there. They went out years ago but from my understanding he sent mixed signals. He's now at the point where she's getting married and not all that thrilled with that fact but is still there as a friend. I've told him over and over he should just come clean with her. I've also, multiple times talked to her but never have gotten a chance to talk indepth with her but it seems clear she's holding back. I don't have all the information so I could be off but I respect my mates attitude that she's going out, now engaged, and will not do anything. Those are his morals, mine....I'd tell her how I feel, will I do anything. Nope as his reason is valid even if I don't agree with it. So now its just a joke with us.

I've been through breakups of friends and there have been breakups that wouldn't have happened when they did if I was not involved. And I've been on the recieving end of that stick too. Humans adapt very quickly and my friendships have only grown because of these open communications.

We always think a situation will be the worst it can be but very really is it as traumatic as we think. Ask me how I would feel if my son died and I'll, like most people would, feel like you stuck a knife through my heart and I probably would be crushed for the rest of my life. But in actuality I'd go on. There would be days I would be happy and I'm sure days I would be sad. What we do as friends is support eachother to make those happy days happen and those sad days bearable.

Note this is my experience. If you are a person that has a hard time being open with people all my advice probably would back fire on you.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Stella740pl]

Waine,

You are trying to prove something to me, but I cannot quiet grasp what exactly.

The fact that you are a caring friend I already noticed.

The fact that one should help one's friend and be there for him/her I never denied. I've also been through breakups and marriages of my friends, and gave them advice, and listened to them if they decided to share it with me, even after a prompt sometimes ("Is something wrong with you?" or something to that effect.)

What I actually say is wrong is to snoop around and intrude where you are not invited to do so. As I already said in one of my earlier posts, "don't stick your nose where it doesn't belong (and it sure doesn't belong in your friend's marriage if neither of the spouses talked about their problems to you". If a person doesn't want to share this one, then my advice is not welcome in this case, and it especially applies to marriage. I personally wouldn't like it coming from one of my friends if I didn't share with him/her, but he/she just snooped for documents/proofs lying around. Say, your friend with a frigid marriage; you wouldn't know such a thing for sure if she didn't talk to you about it, at least after your prompt.

I can even agree, that exist some situations when you should warn your friend about his/her prospective spouse, while they are not married yet and can potentially change their mind. Once they are married, there are little excuses to do that - they are already married. I've seen marriages crush because of well-wishing ever-helpful advice of meddling in-laws and relatives. (Of course, that advice piled up on the top of some real problems, but those problems could have been resolved by spouses if they talked to each other first, not to relatives and friends instead. Those relatives, instead of advising to talk to the spouse about the issue, usually decided to act themselves, either to talk to the other party, or to the other party's parents, or to do some other intrusive things.) Again, that is if they don't ask you for advice. If they do... Be careful what you tell them.

If you are a person that has a hard time being open with people all my advice probably would back fire on you.
I don't have hard time being open with people, if I think that openness belong in a particular situation. But in some cases, yes, I am myself a private person (say, when it comes to my marriage), and I discuss it openly only with my husband; and while we can do it, we can resolve everything together. If we couldn't do that anymore, no friend would be able to help. So I have to respect privacy of my friends if they desire it. If they need to talk to someone, I am there for them.

Well, what else to say? Didn't we say everything already.

Stella

 

[Stella740pl]

Oh, and sorry for misspelling your name.

 

[KornGeek]

stella740pl,
Just out of curiosity, would your views be different if instead of viewing the information on the hard drive, he saw the wife and another man kissing in public? What would be the responsibility then?

If the person really did stumble across this information, then I view it the same as viewing them in public. If the person was snooping where they shouldn't, then (in my eyes) the responsibility to act is the same, but you also need to own up to what you did wrong as well.

 

[Stella740pl]

Just out of curiosity, would your views be different if instead of viewing the information on the hard drive, he saw the wife and another man kissing in public? What would be the responsibility then?
It depends.

If the person really did stumble across this information, then I view it the same as viewing them in public.
It's not the same and it depends.

If the person was snooping where they shouldn't, then (in my eyes) the responsibility to act is the same...
I don't agree.

What happened in public, was meant for public eyes, even if not for yours in particular. Come on, people don't hide any more - are you sure your friend doesn't know and didn't file for divorce yet? But still, make sure first, that... Be careful what exactly you tell, because... Oh, never mind. It's your choice anyway.

If you were snooping around, it was not meant for anybody's eyes, and it makes a lot of difference.

Again, it all depends. There are situations and situations. But I don't want to go deep into it again and again. Just let's say, it's an individual choice for each of us.

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

Stella740pl - I understand and respect your opinion. I don't agree or practise it myself tho.

I understand that you are a private person and you handle things differently.

When I talk to friends about an issue I don't talk to them to "save their marriage" etc. I talk to them about doing what may be best for them long term. If a marriage is dead, cheating spouse etc, and they are not communicating yes that is a communication issue between them. But to me if I find out, and I don't believe this case had to be "Snooping" personally, that a friends spouse is cheating on them that I should sit back and leave it to their lack of communication. Do you think they cheating spouse will spouse will come home one day and say "Hey honey, by the way I'm sleeping with this person from the office. You don't mind do you?"

True in some cases the affair might fissle out and that would be the end of it but the majority of cases it wouldn't. It is just my practise to goto a friend and inform them of what I know and be there for them to help them thru the problem if I can.

I'll take it as you are religious and that you believe once you are married thats it there is nothing that can be done. If that is your personal beliefs I respect that as I would respect my friends opinion. My first advice is normally to try to get the communication going between them. I tried to fix my marriage after I found out my ex cheated on me for the sake of my son. I don't mean to sound like all I do is break up relationships that I think are bad. I try to point out to my friends where the relationship is bad by normal standards and suggests ways to improve the situation. With one friend it might be just getting them to talk more, another might be counceling, another might be cut your losses before you get burnt any more.

If your friend has a drinking or drug problem will you not do something even though you where not invited?
If your friend is being abused or is abusing someone else will you not do something even if you are not invited?
If your friend had a gambling problem and didn't want to talk about it would you leave it alone?

What ever your answers are that is fine for you.
I though, even if it cost me a friendship, will not let a friend go down a destructive path if I know what is going on. The 3 examples above the people often don't realise they have a problem, just like a friend might not realise their spouse is cheating on them. They don't see the signs for many different reasons. Personally I yet to have a situation where I've lost a friend when showing them what they can't see for themselves and I thank god I have friends that will do the same for me.

The biggest thing I believe is we don't judge our friends but simply are there to help them.

Hope this clears up where I'm coming from. If it doesn't don't worry about it to much. I'm not saying you're wrong just that I have a different experience with things then you do. I would say it has to do with the types of people we are. You being a private person and me being open. Neither is better then the other just different ways of handling things.

In the end you have to look inward towards yourself and make your decision based on who you are. My experience is also that even with private friends you can go your normal route you just have to make sure you handle it tactfully. With a friend that is fairly open I might approach another close friend(s) to try to help someone through a situation where if it was a friend that was very private I wouldn't involve others as that would make them just feel worst.


Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

Boy i'm long winded


Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Stella740pl]

Hey, guys and gals!

This thread:

* Has descended from "What are opinions of seeing sensitive data on a hard disk?", meaning multiple opinions, to "What are opinions of this particular person who has a different opinion on the initial topic, on all ethical problems we can think of?", and to "Let's dissect someone's opinion and try to prove why our opinions are better";

* Has nothing to do anymore with IT, hard discs, sensitive data on them, and workplace ethics in general and the initial question in particular, and I didn't actually sign up for a "Friendship and marriage" support group or something to this effect;

* Started to go rounds and rounds, and nothing new is brought to the discussion lately;

* Starting to take too much time, much more that I intended to spend on it.


To make long story short (if it's not too late for that already), I stated all this to say, "Sorry folks, but I am out of here". Well, I guess I will read this thread for as long as I have an interest in it, but I am not contributing anymore, at least while this discussion is what it is now.

Oh, and Wayne, in the assumption you made about me based on my previous posts there is a grain of truth (and I'm not going to explain which one), but there is something else behind my opinions, and I'm not going to explain this one either. Sorry.

Stella

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

"Let's dissect someone's opinion and try to prove why our opinions are better"

I hope you are not refering to me because in all my posts (not just this thread) I've tried to point out that peoples opinions are there own and one persons opinion is no better then another....well in most cases like this one here.

What we are addressing is not his subject line but the last line of his post "What would you do? Would you talk or remain silent?"

"Oh, and Wayne, in the assumption you made about me based on my previous posts there is a grain of truth (and I'm not going to explain which one), but there is something else behind my opinions, and I'm not going to explain this one either. Sorry."

No need. Opinions shouldn't have to be explained if you don't want to explain them. Again I never meant to say my opinion was more valid then yours. I do like to debate and draw more questions onto the ground as it gives me better understanding on how others think and this is always good for me because I get more accepting of others views the more I'm exposed to them.




Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[KornGeek]

Stella,
I apologize if I came off as trying to put down your opinion. This forum frequently gets into lively debates. I may disagree with your opinion, but that doesn't mean that I value it any less. Sometimes, I'll even argue for the sake of arguing simply to illustrate another point of view.

(Directed back at the topic in general)
While reading Wayne's post, I realized another reason why I would probably say something. If the spouse is cheating, your friend might be exposed to (potentially deadly) diseases. Somebody needs to warn them. (Again, this is only my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.)

 

[Onyxpurr]

Ditto, KornGeek.